David Shaw, what happened? Who was he?

[wedivebc]

I have a question, and I am not at all questioning any of the people involved or their decisions and I'm not trying to stir up a debate, I'm just curious. Had there been another diver down there with him, would this maybe have not happened

You will find almost all the really BIG dives are done solo. Safety divers are usually involved with the deco aspect of the dive the bottom is usually done solo.

 

[diddydidit]

"raising the dead", great book. basically he over breathed his scrubber on his rebreaher

 

[diddydidit]

Oh, wow. Dave Shaw | Outside Online brought tears to my eyes. How tragic.

I have a question, and I am not at all questioning any of the people involved or their decisions and I'm not trying to stir up a debate, I'm just curious. Had there been another diver down there with him, would this maybe have not happened (ie, maybe left the body when it came loose) or would they likely have both succumbed to narcosis and had it end up being a double tragedy? I don't know if it would have even been possible to have another diver down there, I'm just wondering whether it could have helped or if it would have made things worse. I know that no one can know for sure, but I don't know enough about it to even begin to guess.

There was another diver but he had a mod of 800 feet or so, his name is Don Shirley, there was also a large group of people at depths of like 400 feet to the surface(I dont really remember the depths off the top of my head).
The plan was if Shaw didn't return nobody was to go after him. Shirley broke his depth anyways and got severely bent. His return to the surface was nothing short of epic

 

[Deep-6]

Two tragedies separated by 10 yrs. 270 meters that's almost 900ft. Just the thought gives me the heebie-jeebies. My heart goes out to the families.

 

[idocsteve]

I saw a mask in the video for a brief moment. It was my understanding that the body was headless?

 

[widget]

Hmm, I have been to the dive site, and in fact knew the man Dave was trying to raise. His parents had an electronic business not far from where I lived. I still know the parents well.

I never knew Dave, but I know Don Shirley personally, and he runs a very well respected sport deep diving school locally.

It was a terrible tradgedy in all respects, and the facts (and fiction) of the accident are well documented so I wont go into them here, (in fact the head cam footage was aired on local TV much to many folks disdain) - but in my humble opinion this was not a dive for the sport diving fraternity, even for divers as experienced and possibly capable as Don and Dave, and the risks (especially from equipment failure and the site isolation) were heavily stacked against them right from the get-go.

I have spent 30 years in the working Saturation diving industry, seen and experienced many a "hairy" moment, but this dive was extreme in every sense, and in my humble opinion, simply never worth the risk.

Gary Gentile a very well respected wreck and deep diver once said "Many people in extreme sports activities do not recognise their limitations, and when they do, they are about to die." - I honestly think this was one of those occassions, and as sad and as tragic as it was, something good did come out of it and the landowner has closed off the site now, prohibiting any further diving there.

Rest well.

 

[Sas]

and as sad and as tragic as it was, something good did come out of it and the landowner has closed off the site now, prohibiting any further diving there.

How is that a good thing?

 

[DaleC]

I wonder if Piccard had died in the Trieste whether people would have considered his descent worth the risk. Hillary on Everest, Armstrong on the moon.
What makes one worth the risk and the other not; considering they had just as great a risk of dying as Shaw. Was he any more reckless than those guys who did a 14,000' cave penetration?
(Oops, have to keep up with the times. Apparently it is now 36,110').

I certainly have no authority to question Shaws motivations or reasoning.

 

[widget]

How is that a good thing?

Its not the first fatality there Saspotato, there have been a few. Initially the landowner took the decision that to dive there you would need to have the relevant qualifications and go through Don Shirley and his school, however as in anything, this was abused, and as its so far from anywhere it was impossible to control. Divers would just arrive and dive, unbeknown to anyone. Obviously there were fatalities.

We have to understand where this dive site is, its very remote, completely isolated and without any form of communication.
Just to get to the water you need to have a 4 x 4 vehicle, take all your requirements with including water,food,tents,air,etc, absail yourself and your equipment down an, I guess, 60 / 70 m drop to the water,dive,and do the same to get back up.

Its not an everyday recreational dive.

The cave is for all (our) intents and purposes bottomless (okay naturally there is a bottom, but its way below diving levels) and the neck of the entrance is convoluted, so in effect you are diving in an overhead enviroment.

As you can imagine, any accident even a minor one becomes a massive issue, as, if you can get the diver out, access to medical assistance (unless you have a doctor and a chamber on site) is at least 6-8 hours away by road, there is nowhere to land a helicopter (even if you could contact one telephonically, and you cant) due to brush and tree growth, so even in an air evacuation you would still need to get the diver out of the cave, up the ridge, carry them to a vehicle and drive to the closest road - I would guess that will take at best 3 hours.

The landowner was (after the Dave Shaw) incident no longer prepared to keep the site open and risk further fatalities, his argument was he risked possible law issues, he felt in a way responsible for the site and he was just a farmer, he could not deal with the standard legal problems, family issues etc of a diver fatality on his property, and hense, closed it off.

Certainly could access be controled and diver qualifications checked before they were allowed to dive, perhaps he would consider re-opening it, but its just not logistically possible, and in this light I think he made the right decision.

 

[widget]

I wonder if Piccard had died in the Trieste whether people would have considered his descent worth the risk. Hillary on Everest, Armstrong on the moon.
What makes one worth the risk and the other not;

Yes sure, DaleC, you raise a valid point. However, I think there was a lot of information available here, and, thats what made the differance, and why I believe (and please, this is just my opinion) this attempt to raise the body was too risky.

I have not read the book so dont know if its told there, but when the diver was lost the family contracted a South African based but USA owned saturation diving company to locate and raise the body. This company at a massive cost in time and financial resources managed to launch an unmanned submersible craft into the cave but they were unable to find the body then.

Later when the body was found, the family again contacted this company who reviewed the situation, but due to the huge cost the family would incur, it was not affordable. The company advised against the recovery as well.

The family then tried both the military and police task divers, but, when they reviewed the dive, they both declined, saying it was too dangerous.

The family had accepted and made peace with this advice.

It must be remembered, the Dave Shaw expedition was a private one, it had good intentions no doubt, but they were attempting something in a recreational capacity, professional divers had declined to do due to risk, they had this information, and I believe there-in lies the differance.

Please understand, I am not judging, this was a tragic affair, I know Don personally and how Daves death affected him afterwards, he was devastated, and in hind sight I am sure he would not attempt it again.