David Shaw, what happened? Who was he?

[krawdady]

If you haven't seen it there was a great special about this on Dateline a year or so ago. I have a copy of it somewhere that I recorded. If you have Tivo do a search in case they ever rerun it.

 

[Scubagolf]

Diving into Darkness, book by Phillip Finch, does a good job telling the story.

Good book. If you want mine in "like new condition" PM me and we can make a deal.

 

[StevenN]

The weekend I got certified this story was on the news when I came back to my hotel room. It's not too often and almost never for good reason when divers make the news.

I would like to read the book to know the whole story of this tragedy.

 

[DaleC]

Look at Shaw's video. He went into training mode. Situational awareness escaped him. Then you read about Shirley's escape, a true mastery of a completely catastrophic situation. His capabilities were the only thing that saved his life. He never ever gave up on the mental, or the physical struggle.

I'm not quite sure if you are trying to suggest that one diver kept his head and the other didn't (if you aren't please disregard). My take is that due to gas physiology at those depths, there is very little room for error and that, once thrown off your game plan, it is very hard to recover equilibrium. Perhaps no amount of training would compensate for that. Shirley and Shaw did not have close to the same dive profiles so I don't think it is fair to compare the two responses.

One article suggests that (along with the stress of the aborted body recovery) Shaws problems started with a last minute decision to headmount a camera, which led to him laying his light down instead of looping it over his head (as he usually would), which then became tangled, which then caused him to exert himself and overbreath his rig.

Even for divers that don't go to those extremes it is a good lesson in unintended consequences.

 

[Huck BB62]

I totally agree. I think it's fair to say though: Both men did not stick to a well executed plan.

At that extreme, for Shaw, and I was thinking it over and over and over again while reading the book, watching the video, was stop, please dear God in heaven, STOP, and retreat for another day. When everything hinges on every single thing going so absolutely perfect, the minute he stressed, he should've pulled out. Monday morning quarterbacking I know, but I'll heed that my very own self. From now on, I vow that if it isn't right, I'm out of there. It's RECREATIONAL diving. Shaw himself said on the morning of the dive, "Face it, we're doing it for the hell of it."

Same for Shirley. Despite every single conversation, training, and plan for the dive, he ditched his plan and bounced down. They already talked about it, and he knew better than to try, but he did it.

This brings up a great point. You can always dive another day. If things go hinkey, stop, think about the situation, and get home. It's not always the best thing to do unless your gas is compromised and seconds count.

What I haven't said is that on a solo dive, I drowned once. It was stupid. I'm so so lucky. It changed the way I dive. When your computer (brain) is compromised, trust me on this, you're compromised, period. When seconds count, falling back on some kind of routine (like checking your gauges over and over and over while a simple cord looped over a light has you pinned 900 feet from the surface) will distract you from thinking abstractly, out of the box. I too followed my training, and it almost killed me. Entanglements are tough. You can't feel it. You can't see it. It's not like you can reach 360 degrees and find it, especially if you're in bail out mode.

Have you ever talked to a Navy diver to see what they go through? I'm wondering if civilians shouldn't have more of that broad based training.

I've seen guys operating complex machinery and airplanes who are at the pinnacle of their training and knowledge do the wrong thing and cause damage or crash. Task overload or the unknown of a variable (cord on a single wrap on a light) will kill you or someone else.

Great discussion. I'm glad folks watch this stuff. I'm not a doomsdayer about it, but I do wonder, by watching people's habits (not listening to what they say) just how they're thinking about this stuff.

 

[k374]

the "Raising the dead" article is the most intense piece I have read so far... got my adrenalin running just reading it. I can't imagine what it was like to go through it. Seems like he was one of those who loved to push the envelope.

 

[marshallkarp]

I interviewed Tim Zimmerman, the author of the Outside Magazine article two years ago for the Underwater Videographer Podcast. The podcasts are still up on Itunes, just run a search for underwater videographer.

It is a chilling account of a tragedy in the making. The feedback that I got was that it was absorbing.

 

[AquaExplorer]

I wonder if Piccard had died in the Trieste whether people would have considered his descent worth the risk. Hillary on Everest, Armstrong on the moon.
What makes one worth the risk and the other not; considering they had just as great a risk of dying as Shaw. Was he any more reckless than those guys who did a 14,000' cave penetration?
(Oops, have to keep up with the times. Apparently it is now 36,110').

I certainly have no authority to question Shaws motivations or reasoning.

Going to the moon was a national effort backed by BILLIONS of dollars and thousands of people with science and engineering all being bent to their needs.

Had the USN been the ones to go after the body (if they had not determined it was too risky)....they might have sent an ROV down instead, something those not backed by such large pockets/resources maybe could not do.

Risk management my friend....at times the risk is simply too great.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I really learned alot from reading the article, and the discussion here is quite interesting and applies to recreational diving on many levels. But is this really appropriate fare for the basic scuba board?

 

[Huck BB62]

I think it may be. I get to be around a lot of people getting scuba training and I've never heard, maybe others have, them speak about the primary goal being coming back alive and how every action should center around that. The comfort and fun can come, and will come, but new divers might benefit from the frankness of the postmortem discussions.

The thrill and fun of diving, we're all very fond of sharing and rightly so.

I'm a more pensive diver these days. I don't get to get in the water every weekend. There are long periods between my trips, like Dave Shaw, so the waterman in me isn't nearly as refined as it could be as in say someone like Don Shirley. I believe there's a huge difference between two kinds of people like that.

But then again, you have the "best" divers fail.

Perhaps it's about the respect of the physics.