Dangerous Crossing

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Let me get this right. Mau renamed the retrofitted glass bottom boat in order to use the park permits that the original Living Underwater carried. Is this right or am I helplessly confused?

I have no first hand knowledge of this vessel but I do know something about the Parque permit system. Permits to take people into the Parque Marino (1 permit per person) are assets of the boat, not of the company or person owning the boat. When boats are sold, the number of permits it has determines its value. The total number of permits is fixed (most of the time). If a dive company wants to add capacity for more divers, either it needs to lease a vessel with permits or buy a vessel with permits. (There is also a way to transfer permits boat-to-boat at renewal time.) This is SOP here. If the boat is sold with permits, the new owner cannot change the vessel's registration info and both registration and permits must be kept current. According to press reports, the Port Captain has confirmed that this vessel was in compliance with all regulations.
 
Come on Don .....????


Don said:

Yes if a boat is stopped or moving very slow. So were in how many feet of water? And what pray tell caused this rouge wave? Another boat?
Then why so long for a rescue?:idk:

It would be very useful if someone on the boat in question would man up and tell what actually happened.

I don't bet, but if I did, I would go with a catastrophic failure of the hull, like were the glass bottom was.

Sinking that fast, if in fact that is even true?

Still glad everyone is safe.

Darol...that is entirely possible IF the boat was hit by a rogue wave. It was once thought those were few and far between. With all us ragboaters out there cruising that myth has been debunked. Had a friend get hit with one within a 100 feet from a breakwater off east coast florida in December 2006 in a 35 foot sailboat. He scraped kitty litter off his overhead for days..

As for sinking that fast, absolutely... My business partner was on a tartan 40 off the coast of NC in 2009 when they hit a container.. or they _think_ that is what hit them. From the time of the thud when water started pouring in... it was exactly 7 minutes by his watch that the boat sank. Fortunately he and his wife got the kids, and boat documents into the liferaft in that period of time. At the same time one of them, neither can remember who, set off the Epirb. With that said... most divers are not boaters or have ever truly practiced man overboard drills, or ditching drills. In that light the things scubadoc, the DM and Kev did were incredible. I am in awe...

That the DM had the presence of mind to get scubadoc untangled..most ppl would have panicked in such a situation..

Stuff happens, and sometimes we all get lucky and everyone lives to tell the tale over beer and yrs later can laugh about it..
 
I've gotta say that Cozumel is a pretty safe place to dive, with as many divers that go out every day there, you have to admit the low incident levels of accidents, injuries and deaths speaks for itself. The fact that the majority of diving takes place on the sheltered side of island helps too.

I further try to increase my odds by avoiding making my dive op choices based on price and instead go with reputation, even it it means a lot more money spent. My life and my wife's life are priceless, we only got one you know!

Juxtaposition to Isla Mujeres just across the channel. I tried my best to find the best dive ops available on the island when we stayed there a couple of years ago. I ended up with recommendations through scuba board for Enrique's Unique Dives. Supposed to be a personal, boutique experience, well, whatever -'boutique' = shoe string... we dove with him one dive and scrubbed the day because safety was obviously less important than dollars to him. That's the one time diving I've ever been in fear for myself and my wife's well being due to bad judgement on the dive op due to weather and sea conditions. I truly feel we got a second chance that day and it was a good wake up call to avoid 'trust me' anything while on vacations anywhere. We then dove with our 2nd choice which was Aqua Adventures, a larger operation but still small compared to most Cozumel dive ops. Much safer however it's obvious maintenance is not their strong suit, as their dive boats motor died on our first day with them and set us adrift for over an hour and we got towed in, their borrowed boat for the next day lasted exactly two days before it died and they had to borrow a 3rd which seemed to be the charm as it made it through the rest of our time there.

Cozumel at least has a large selection of dive operations to choose from and you can easily avoid shoe-string operations if you have the desire to pay the increase for them.
 
We're getting a lot of conflicting info, which is common: why the boat sank, where the customers boarded, how many BCs were retrieved by the heroic free divers, how far they drifted before found - 5.5 miles east of Punta Maroma which is "35.3 kilometres (21.9 mi) km from the Cancún International Airport (CUN) and about 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) northeast of Playa del Carmen[" seems more reasonable than some reports saying they made it past Cancun. :confused:

Based on the poorly translated (as always) articles, I surmise the potential for those involved having been instructed not to make public comments.

My takeaways so far:

1. Ensure the boat is current on it's inspections, and take that with a grain of salt.
2. Pay attention to safety briefings, and know where PFD's are. As a long ago firefighter, I always look for fire extinguishers.
....Boat fires aren't uncommon.
3. Keep your personal safety devices close at hand.
4. Have as least the bottom of a full suit on while onboard, or wear a shorty, or PFD.
5. Partially inflate one BCD while it's in our waterproof boat bag. Submerged life support items are useless.
6. Consider the electronic locators.
I don't mean to be snide, but have you been to Coz? On Panga boats there?
1: Are you going to just ask, or delay actions while you read it every morning - even if being picked up at a different dock after the others loaded elsewhere? You'll either get "Si, of course" or we'll see how well your read and understand Spanish on a bouncing boat.
2: Great advice, but I've been on a number of different boats with half a dozen different Ops and I just do not remember ever getting a safety briefing in Coz - and I do pay attention to those things. If I have, then I just forgot any I heard. And I could go on about my doubts about boat safety devices, but no one wants to read that much.
3: I think the BCs are generally attached to tanks and secured at the back of the boat on most Pangas, with the captain asking everyone to sit forward for balance - so plan B? If you see an old fart wearing a yellow snorkel vest and a signal mirror hung from his neck, say hi to me - but that's all the safety stuff I wear, and they ask everything else be stowed out of the way. Note, those free divers did especially great going to the back of a boat sinking back down to retrieve some if that's how it played out. I know one of them, and he is quite a diver.
4: Many of us dive in skins with no buoyancy there, some less. I really don't know if Pangas carry life vests? Never seen one out.
5: See #3
6: I guess the waterproof locators are a good idea, but there are many good ideas that will remain uncommon.

Why is it that every thread WSOP starts ends up being a trainwreck?
He did not start the thread. It does seem that he often supplies links to articles first and offers info of unknown value, but his main purpose on the board seems to be that of bashing Coz - in particular anyone associated with either part of the shop that broke up. I've never seen any credentials on him so I consider his posts the same as I do most others here, as parlor talk - only his seem to usually be slanted. He does seem rude and doesn't seem to care what others thing but that might just be my view?

Juxtaposition to Isla Mujeres just across the channel.
Huh, what? Isla Murejes is a long ways from Coz. Playa del Carmen is across the channel, then a bus ride to Cancun, then a ferry ride to the island - but you knew that, so what did you mean?
 
Don re your point number 4. I would be ASTONISHED to learn that life vests are anything BUT a required item on any seafaring vessel in Cozumel regardless of its size but maybe Christi or Dave could confirm. I have seen them on any panga I have ever been on in Cozumel. I know exactly where they are to be found on the Jewfish. They are in plain sight in the overhead net. Within easy reach if needed.
 
Yes, as far as I know, virtually all boats in Cozumel have life vests and most of them are in plain view. Our port captain staff does visual inspections on an ad hoc basis at least and lack of life vests would stand out like a sore thumb. In our smaller boats they are hung under the sunshade, as they are on most boats, and can be grabbed very quickly. I doubt if we or anyone else does a safety briefing for abandoning ship...maybe we should?

PS. I only started this thread to point out the dangers in crossing the channel in the average small boats, not to cast blame. That was the same point I tried to make several weeks ago in the diving bull sharks thread but I guess people missed it.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers
 
Now one must ask the question, what can we do to help? I would like to be first to offer any assistance I can to get a person who makes his living from the sea
back on the water. As I said before, "I'm not in the judgement business" I leave that to others. :D

If someone wants to get the ball rolling, I'm down with it. We all have bad luck, or call it "Karma" or whatever. Let's change this into something positive and help.
 
Now one must ask the question, what can we do to help? I would like to be first to offer any assistance I can to get a person who makes his living from the sea
back on the water. As I said before, "I'm not in the judgement business" I leave that to others. :D

If someone wants to get the ball rolling, I'm down with it. We all have bad luck, or call it "Karma" or whatever. Let's change this into something positive and help.
Mau is still operating. I chatted with him yesterday, and he told me he had a trip going out today. I'm assuming he is renting a boat on an as needed basis.
 
I've said before I love this board for the information. Please bear with me as I learn.

1. Ensure the boat is current on it's inspections, and take that with a grain of salt.

I don't mean to be snide, but have you been to Coz? On Panga boats there?

No, I have never been to Coz, or on a Panga. However, I will be there in less than three weeks. I'll be getting to the boat, with the dive op. I believe I'll have an opportunity to get information as the boat is loaded. I can read little spanish, but I'm pretty good with their numbers :wink: The "take it with a grain of salt" means I need to look around and make some of my own evaluations as to condition, maintenance and procedures. My apologies if I wasn't clear.



2. Pay attention to safety briefings, and know where PFD's are. As a long ago firefighter, I always look for fire extinguishers.
....Boat fires aren't uncommon

2: Great advice, but I've been on a number of different boats with half a dozen different Ops and I just do not remember ever getting a safety briefing in Coz - and I do pay attention to those things. If I have, then I just forgot any I heard. And I could go on about my doubts about boat safety devices, but no one wants to read that much.

Again, not having been to Coz I don't know how valid that is. One other poster disagrees. Guess I'll find out. I didn't mean for that point to be taken as only op provided PFDs, as you wearing a snorkeling vest qualifies in my mind.



3. Keep your personal safety devices close at hand.

3: I think the BCs are generally attached to tanks and secured at the back of the boat on most Pangas, with the captain asking everyone to sit forward for balance - so plan B? If you see an old fart wearing a yellow snorkel vest and a signal mirror hung from his neck, say hi to me - but that's all the safety stuff I wear, and they ask everything else be stowed out of the way. Note, those free divers did especially great going to the back of a boat sinking back down to retrieve some if that's how it played out. I know one of them, and he is quite a diver.

Great point, my ignorance shows here. I keep my SMB wrapped around my mirror, bundled by a bungee loop that secures 20' of poly 3/4" strap. The ends of the strap have SS clips for attachment, or can double as a line to join two divers. Maybe I should have it with me while on the boat? You can be the safety geek with the snorkeling vest and bag of baking soda, Ill be the safety geek with the death-grip on his SMB roll, lol.



4. Have as least the bottom of a full suit on while onboard, or wear a shorty, or PFD.

4: Many of us dive in skins with no buoyancy there, some less. I really don't know if Pangas carry life vests? Never seen one out.

Don re your point number 4. I would be ASTONISHED to learn that life vests are anything BUT a required item on any seafaring vessel in Cozumel regardless of its size but maybe Christi or Dave could confirm. I have seen them on any panga I have ever been on in Cozumel. I know exactly where they are to be found on the Jewfish. They are in plain sight in the overhead net. Within easy reach if needed.

We've already discussed PFDs.




5. Partially inflate one BCD while it's in our waterproof boat bag. Submerged life support items are useless.

5: See #3

Good point again. My ignorance again. My CO analyzer and Nitrox analyzer live in waterproof boxes, which should provide some buoyancy for the bag. Maybe lining the bottom with foam will help. Access to the sunblock would have been beneficial for the incident divers, as well as a bottle of water.




6: I guess the waterproof locators are a good idea, but there are many good ideas that will remain uncommon.

I've just started researching this.


:cheers:

we agree on another point:






:whackt:
 
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