DAN Responds

[runsongas]

@SlugLife DAN uses a contractor though to organize things where it is different than a specialist service that would be directly chartering you a helicopter or small aircraft with a medical transport crew. DAN did try to help arrange things in Woody's case but it was complicated by the timing of the request and the limitations of the local airport that their contractor didn't have an immediate option available.

 

[arkstorm]

Very good and timely response from DAN. Well done! We should all appreciate them taking ownership and looking for ways to improve their service. Hopefully all of us will benefit from this incident.

I agree. But I wonder if DAN's response would have been as good and as timely if this incident happened to someone who doesn't have a dive-related Youtube channel with 317k subscribers?

 

[admikar]

Probably not.
According to a lot of comments about this case, people had issues before. Now, we don't know if they filed complaint, but DAN must have known about some of those issues.

 

[justinthedeeps]

Several mixed experiences with DAN have been voiced here.

Yet, hundreds of thousands (?) of us continue to support DAN.org, based on reported positive experiences of injured divers being promptly supported by calls to DAN Hotline.

Without real statistics, it is impossible to understand.

So how about this:

1. Per year, worldwide, how many times is DAN directly involved in diving incidents requiring transport and treatment?

Looking for a factual number of incidents annually, that require someone to pay money for transport/EMS/hospital/hyperbaric.

2. In how many of these incidents was proper treatment for a currently insured diver not received because nobody--including DAN--could (or wanted) to pay for it?

We would hope zero--but is it not zero?

3. What exactly prevents DAN from having workable billing relationships--or paying up front--for transport, EMS and hyperbaric medicine providers?

If an individual can "move money around to make it work"--while injured--then why does DAN pretend that it can't? They do actually have the money.

4. How much does DAN pay out annually, in total, worldwide, for covered direct costs of transport and treatment?

DAN reported about $12 million in revenue for 2022 (public filing report), netting about a million in 'non-profit?' Almost half of expenses went to executive and employee compensation?--but I am not an expert at reading these reports.

I can not find in the public filings how much they paid out in claims or direct assistance--i.e. bills for transport, EMS, hospital, and hyperbaric.

So how much of the reported $8.5 million annual income in Program Services is paid out annually in direct payment or reimbursement of transport, EMS, hospital and hyperbaric costs?

Would love to see that as a statistical distribution of payouts per incident, with the total number of incidents noted.
You could almost guarantee that exists as an internal document?

Not trying to be unnecessarily critical here, or anti-DAN
But if I disappear for asking these questions ...

 

[BoltSnap]

I can not find in the public filings how much they paid out in claims or direct assistance--i.e. bills for transport, EMS, hospital, and hyperbaric.

I don't believe that DAN pays directly for these services. DAN buys and sells insurance from insurance companies who do the actual paying for these services. DAN isn't an insurance company AFAIK.

 

[justinthedeeps]

I don't believe that DAN pays directly for these services. DAN buys and sells insurance from insurance companies who do the actual paying for these services. DAN isn't an insurance company AFAIK.

In that case, what happened to the millions of dollars? Untraceable?

And how much of that sum, annually, was effectively paid out on behalf people (or their providers) who called the DAN Hotline in the case of injury?

If it amounts to premiums on outside insurers, what is that number?

Let's say for a second that we don't really know or exactly care which third or fourth party insurer was involved.

What is DAN's margin? What is their "take-home" on the fee revenue? Where is the money going? How much annually is spent on actual direct benefits to those paying for policies?

Typical nonprofit questions.

Being a clean, good, and noble organization, surely the numbers work out in way that we can all live with (and keep paying them?)

 

[Edward3c]

I don't believe that DAN pays directly for these services. DAN buys and sells insurance from insurance companies who do the actual paying for these services. DAN isn't an insurance company AFAIK.

In Europe they use IDA Insurance Limited. As shown on their website. Which is located in their Malta building. Most likely a subsidiary holding.

 

[tursiops]

The handbook I got with my DAN Guardian Plan (Enhanced) starts with this info:
"This plan is underwritten by National Union Fire Insurance Company of Pittsburgh, Pa. with its principal place of business in New York, NY, NAIC No. 19445."

 

[scubaozy]

Dan does not sell insurance, they are themselves are (giant) group policy holder. By being a member, you are just part of that group.

 

[Edward3c]

Dan does not sell insurance, they are themselves are (giant) group policy holder. By being a member, you are just part of that group.

It appears DAN Europe doesn't agree with you