Cruise Ship Passenger Dies in St.Maarten

[Puck]

I am sure that nobody here wants to be hurtful, but do we really expect someone who has lost a friend or relative to jump online and check out the board posts dealing with their death? THe brother should feel bad, sad, guilty. Had he stuck with his buddy he may not have been able to do anything, but as it is, he was able to do nothing. As buddies for other divers, we should try to comprehend how bad that must feel and hopefully reinforce good decision making for all of us. Stick with your buddy, you will only regret a shortened dive until the next time you hit the water, but you may regret parting ways the rest of your life.

 

[Seuss]

Not all fatalities are CAUSED by bad buddies but perhaps fatalities could be avoided with good ones

It amazes me how people always have to find somebody to blame... it was the captain of the boat, he should have been a SCUBA police officer and... it was the buddy, he should have... it was the other dive group, they should have... it was the DM, she should have... it was the dive shop, they should have...

Perhaps I am misreading your statement, but within the context of your original post, and this thread, it appears to me that you are suggesting that had the brother/dive buddy surfaced with his partner, then PERHAPS nothing bad would have happened. I find such an opinion to be both shallow and near sighted.

Imagine a diver that prepares to surface, but hits the low pressure inflator instead of the purge button on the BCD. How, exactly, is a dive buddy, good or bad, going to change the outcome of this hypothetical situtation?

Sometimes accidents happen and sometimes people die from accidents. I don't know the specifics of this accident, but my guess (yes, speculation) is that there was absolutely nothing the dive buddy, or anybody else, other than the victim, could have done to prevent the accident from happening.

As always, my heart, and prayers, go out to the family and friends of those involved in the accident.

 

[AndyA]

My prayers go out to the family and friends of those involved in the unfortunate accident.

I believe if a few of the individuals would read their posts before publishing them they would see how insensitive and irresponsible they are.

I have learned much for Scubaboard and want the treads to continue in a responsible caring manner.

When I run into my first life treating issue wither, it is mine or someone else’s. When I Stop, Think, Act I hope I can recall a learning scenario from the “Scubaboard”

 

[Santa]

Right or wrong, in my experience, it's common practise for so many ops to have divers surface one by one at the end of tropical type boat dives where you can sort of watch from beneath.

Sometimes a DM will escort that person to the surface after assigning his buddy to a trio - and then return to the group.

More experienced divers will often just surface on their own and their buddies "go with the group".

Actually many clients prefer it that way because it allows for prolonged bottom times and flexibility under changing circumstances. I'm not saying it's cool just that it's very often how it is.

 

[DandyDon]

I am sure that nobody here wants to be hurtful, but do we really expect someone who has lost a friend or relative to jump online and check out the board posts dealing with their death? THe brother should feel bad, sad, guilty. Had he stuck with his buddy he may not have been able to do anything, but as it is, he was able to do nothing. As buddies for other divers, we should try to comprehend how bad that must feel and hopefully reinforce good decision making for all of us. Stick with your buddy, you will only regret a shortened dive until the next time you hit the water, but you may regret parting ways the rest of your life.

Since I added my email to my Sig line last week, I have received mail from two who have done exactly that. I certainly do not feel it is our place nor within the purpose of this forum to make judging statements like those.

I concur, I always enjoy reading Don's take on things.

Nah, not in charge of anything, nor do I want to be. I just try to encourage appropriate thought and action in myself, then offer it here as a suggestion. Thanks.

I think I will add something I just included on a post to another accident thread involving a lost brother...

I was responsible for my own brother's life & well being countless times working on the farm & cattle operation, as well as that of my dad's, uncle's, nephew's, etc, and they were mine, but that was day to day stuff for us. My brother quit diving before we could ever buddy up, but I can see where that responsibility would have been more intense, a loss while on a dive more upsetting. My continued condolences to the victim's loved ones.

My best friend travels as a vacation diver with me about once a year, and I am always a lot more protective of him that in normal situations; I'd have to face his sainted mother if something happened to him. Again, if we had a car wreck, it'd be one of those things, but diving - we are trained to take care of each other. Seems more intense to me anyway. We practice in a New Mexico spring every other month trying to keep our survival buddy skills honed, and next time - we're including these I listed above.

 

[Otter]

....

Imagine a diver that prepares to surface, but hits the low pressure inflator instead of the purge button on the BCD. How, exactly, is a dive buddy, good or bad, going to change the outcome of this hypothetical situtation?
....

Uh, grab his buddy's legs, flair his own fins to slow an ascent, and if possible dump all of his own air out of his BCD/wings. Perhaps this will give his buddy a few extra seconds to see what he/she has done wrong and stop adding air and then dump the air he added. If the diver determines he is putting himself at risk also, then he should prevent two accidents and let go. Obviously, their depth will be a major factor in the chances of significant problems. Then knowing that their buddy screwed up, the diver should safely ascend --- depending on dive profile, omitting the safety stop --- and make sure his buddy (now on the surface) can be delivered to the boat and is put on100% O2.

After the dive (immediately or delayed), they debrief on what happened, what should have happened, what the recovery procedure was/should have been.


Now you imagine if you were at 80' and your buddy called the dive and you 'watched' them ascend. If after they hit 40' they then accidently hit the inflator button , are you sure you would even be able to tell or even have a inkling that your buddy might be in distress?

 

[Otter]

I guess what i'm saying is there is a time and place for everything. In my mind, when someones loved one dies, isn't the time or place.

I understand your point, however, I think its flawed. First, the likelyhood of the brother immediately jumping on SB and heading to this forum is miniscule. But for the sake of discussion, lets say I wait 1 week maybe 2 weeks and then make the comment. It will be there if/when he read its. You think he will be over it....maybe we wait a year?

Second, this forum is not a "In memoriam" forum. Its for accident and incident analysis. Since statistically, there is a high correlation between diving fatalities and solo diving / buddy separation and this incident includes the purposeful physical separation of two divers diving together, my view is that its appropriate to point out this hazard.

I didn't assign blame as I don't have enough information to fault the diver or the brother. Perhaps they agreed that one would stay and one would ascend. Perhaps this is the protocol they have followed numerous times. It would make the brother no more culpable than the diver. Maybe their instructor failed to teach the importance of buddy system.

Again, I am pointing out the hazards of buddy separation. From a timing perspective, if I can prevent one death by reiterating this at a time when emotions are high, then I have succeeded. What if I had purposely waited a week and someone COULD have read this, but it wasn't here, and then went out and was injured or died with buddy separation as a contributing factor -- that would be a tragedy.

If I died because I screwed up, I would want others to know as soon as possible so that they might not repeat that mistake.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks Otter!

I've had buddies float up on me and been able to catch them safely and bring them back down, and - I've had them get away from me entirely. After a slow ascent, skipping the SS, I'd take them back down to 15 feet for 5 or more minutes. I've seen that idea supported and criticized, but as long as we're together - it seems safe and helpful.

Letting a buddy ascend alone tho does create two solo divers. As much as I like to think I'm better off on my own with my pony than most of the buddies I've had, that's just not true.

 

[Seuss]

Uh, grab his buddy's legs, flair his own fins to slow an ascent, and if possible dump all of his own air out of his BCD/wings.

I have seen students in OW classes panic and try to shoot for the surface. If the instructor is not already holding on to the student, or ready to grab the student, it is nearly impossible to catch them. From my experience, it would be nearly impossible for a dive budy, without warning, on a typical dive, to be able to stop their dive partner from bolting to the surface. By the time the brain processes what is happening, the buddy is already out of reach.

 

[Otter]

I have seen students in OW classes panic and try to shoot for the surface. If the instructor is not already holding on to the student, or ready to grab the student, it is nearly impossible to catch them. From my experience, it would be nearly impossible for a dive budy, without warning, on a typical dive, to be able to stop their dive partner from bolting to the surface. By the time the brain processes what is happening, the buddy is already out of reach.

Your hypothetical wasn't a "bolt" it was the accidental use of the inflator vs. deflator to ascend. Typically, I am facing my buddy when we decide to ascend and are making eye contact to read expressions and make sure all is well. I won't argue that my buddy on fun dives is very unlikely to make that mistake and that I might be caught off guard. When I am teaching or diving with new divers, I am watching that very carefully.

While it maybe "nearly impossible" thats still better than "completely impossible" which is what my chances are of arresting an ascend if my buddy is 40' away from me.

Solo diving is more risky than diving with a buddy. If people know that, accept and prepare for the additional risk, then thats THEIR call. I have done a few solo dives -- usually after returning a student to the boat (making sure they are physically on-board). I could try to convince myself that I am not actually 'safer' not having a student diver with me who is probably more of a liability and may/may not be able to help me if I had a problem....but I much prefer to be realistic and use the extra stress to keep my awareness high.