Creation vs. Evolution

[aquanuts...]

Spot on Mike, I’m impressed. It’s easy to see how Job 26:7 can be describing the earth as seen from space.

 

[H2Andy]

It’s easy to see how Job 26:7 can be describing the earth as seen from space.

lol

it can be seen to be describing a lot

but does it say the Earth is round? no

please provide me with a verse that says that. until then, no dice

(there are at least two verses i can think of that do a good job of proving your point. but i'm not going to cite them for you. do your legwork, learn your Bible, and get your arguments together before trying to discuss these issues)

(you also need to account for the fact that ancient Babylonian and Summerian "science" held that the Earth was flat and round, like a tortilla -- only larger -- the Bible reflects this belief, also reflected by the Egyptians... basically that was "state of the art" knowledge back then)

 

[aquanuts...]

First, I didn’t say it was round. Second, I said, “It’s easy to see how Job 26:7 can be describing the earth as seen from space.” Third, it is an irrelevant and off topic argument.

What you want is absolute proof that God exists. Well, you will never find it in anyplace other than your heart (figuratively speaking). You must seek in order to find. If you are so hung up on unquestionable, undeniable proof, then you will be disappointed because you only get the proof after you accept him (faith). After that, you have the painstaking task of trying to spread the word with only your personal, spiritual experience to offer as evidence.

If you want a more interesting argument, try this: prove love. We all know it exists, but nobody can prove it. It’s in our hearts, but is invisible and intangible.

 

[H2Andy]

What you want is absolute proof that God exists.

of course not, that would be asking for the impossible


we're talking about whether the Bible says the Earth is round, and what does that mean

 

[AXL72]

Ok...when I said round, I meant spherical. but...mmmm tortilla y bistec

I am eager to find out what Andy might have found regarding the answer, but I will hold my breath, hoping not to be too embarased when he posts the verses.

I think this discussion of the spherical earth is quite relevant. If I were God, and I told of Heaven and Hell, I would have at least communicated the geometry of earth, this magnificant creation of mine.

And if God wants us to know and love him, why did he not induce prophets on the other side of the world? Why did he not make his ten commandments known to them? You know, all that important stuff like no other God's before me.

Something don't jive.

I just thought of something interesting, I would have loved to be a current day meteorologist in the day of Noah. Can yo imagine doing a weather report for a storm covering the whole planet? WOWZA!

 

[H2Andy]

Ok...when I said round, I meant spherical. but...mmmm tortilla y bistec

yup, yup...

the Bible writers did not know the earth was spherical

they thought it was round and flat, like everyobdy around them did. there are a few verses in the Bible that seem to describe the Earth as "round" (not the one cited, mind you)

but since everybody else believed that too at the time, i'm not too sure how significant those verses are

there are other verses that describe the earth as "firm" and "inmovable" as well ... take your pick

it's what happens when you take a 4,000 year old spiritual book and want to turn it into a science book ... it just doesn't work

 

[aquanuts...]

Ok...when I said round, I meant spherical. but...mmmm tortilla y bistec

I am eager to find out what Andy might have found regarding the answer, but I will hold my breath, hoping not to be too embarased when he posts the verses.

I think this discussion of the spherical earth is quite relevant. If I were God, and I told of Heaven and Hell, I would have at least communicated the geometry of earth, this magnificant creation of mine.

And if God wants us to know and love him, why did he not induce prophets on the other side of the world? Why did he not make his ten commandments known to them? You know, all that important stuff like no other God's before me.

Something don't jive.

I just thought of something interesting, I would have loved to be a current day meteorologist in the day of Noah. Can yo imagine doing a weather report for a storm covering the whole planet? WOWZA!

Glad to see you caught the dimension error. 2 space, 3 space, 4 space, it really makes a difference.

I still don’t see how the shape of the earth has anything to do with mans’ origin.

 

[H2Andy]

I still don’t see how the shape of the earth has anything to do with mans’ origin.

dude, the argument you insterted yourself into is whether the verse in question says that the Earth is round

(this is the second time i explain that to you)

despite what modern Christians want to assert, the Bible writers thought the Earth was flat and round, like everybody around them did.

there's no verse in the Bible that states the Earth is not flat. in fact, there are many that imply it was flat. no verse actually comes out and says it was flat. it is also called "round," and there are several verses that state that.

but round is not the same as spherical

the idea that the Earth is a sphere has been around a long time.

Pythagoras proposed it, but didn't prove it (570 BC)

Plato (427 BC - 347 BC) travelled to southern Italy to study Pythagorean mathematics. When he returned to Athens and established his school, Plato also taught his students that Earth was a sphere. If man could soar high above the clouds, Earth would resemble "a ball made of twelve pieces of leather, variegated, a patchwork of colours."

Aristotle (384-322 BC) observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent."

Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:

Every portion of the earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere.

Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and

The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round.

from Wikipedia

the books of the Old Testatement were writen from around 1400 BC to aound 400 BC, so they probably just missed that concept.

again: nowhere in the Bible does it say the Earth is a sphere (the Greek idea).

rather, it says the Earth is round and implies flatness (the Babylonian, Sumerian, and Egyptian idea).

 

[aquanuts...]

dude, the argument you insterted yourself into is whether the verse in question says that the Earth is round

(this is the second time i explain that to you)

despite what modern Christians want to assert, the Bible writers thought the Earth was flat and round, like everybody around them did.

there's no verse in the Bible that states the Earth is not flat. in fact, there are many that imply it was flat. no verse actually comes out and says it was flat. it is also called "round," and there are several verses that state that.

but round is not the same as spherical

while the idea that the Earth is a sphere has been around since about 370 BC, most (if not all) of the books of the Old Testament had already been written by then.

Ok... once again I said I can see how Job 27:7 can describe earth as seen from space. A complaiment to the intupretor. And FYI when you look at it from that distance, it would appear flat, circular, round.

 

[Midnight Star]

...despite what modern Christians want to assert the Bible writers thought the Earth was flat and round, like everybody around them did.

I agree with you, but more importantly, I don't really think they cared; whether it was or wasn't didn't matter to them.

Perhaps the idea behind Job, is that Job himself believed, but over time, couldn't rationalize all the things going wrong in his life. He held out for quite sometime, but then began to "challenge" God in the why's and whatfor's ... and God's answer was to simply remind him, that if he didn't make the world around him, how it was formed, founded and why everything does what it does (why matter is, and why it does what it does), who was he to criticize. Job began to see the wonder of it all, and afterwards repented.

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Mike.