Creation vs. Evolution

[H2Andy]

Ok... once again I said I can see how Job 27:7 can describe earth as seen from space. A complaiment to the intupretor. And FYI when you look at it from that distance, it would appear flat, circular, round.

yup, i understand your point...

also, by the way, I am NOT saying that Christians in the middle ages thought the Earth was flat .. the idea that the Earth was spherical was well known by then, though there were some who argued for a flat Earth (the minority)

Columbus just put two and two together (since the Earth is s a sphere, i'll sail the other way until i reach the Indies)

 

[Midnight Star]

After that, you have the painstaking task of trying to spread the word with only your personal, spiritual experience to offer as evidence

That is very well said. In that weakness, is found the greatest of all strengths

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Mike.

 

[H2Andy]

I agree with you, but more importantly, I don't really think they cared; whether it was or wasn't didn't matter to them.

i guess my point is that to strain the Bible to say that the Earth is a sphere is just poor exegesis ... you are reading something that is not there

the Bible's view of the Earth, as shown in a number of verses, is that it is round. there are other verses that describe it as "firm" and "inmovable." that's what the Sumerians and Babylonians and Egyptians belived too. these beliefs are not exceptional for their time.

that's about it. there's no support in the Bible for the idea that the Earth is a sphere.

 

[Midnight Star]

Columbus just put two and two together (since the Earth is s a sphere, i'll sail the other way until i reach the Indies)

I remember reading about religious leaders of that time (no groups mentioned), and how they put to death, or threatened to put to death, those that thought differently from them; mostly those of the scientific community. Many artists (like Leonardo), and astromonmers, whose observations over the course of time were proven true, were not only threatened, but had to either hold their findings in secret, or secretly publish them amongst themselves. A great travesty, and definately not a commandment or principle that was given in the bible for them to follow; the disciples didn't do those things, and they were setting the examples for us. What they did then (and many still do to this day) are the commandments and judgements of men, well covered and ill spoken of in the bible, the very bible they profess to follow and defend.

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Mike.

 

[H2Andy]

i am not aware of anyone being persecuted because they said the Earth was a sphere

(those who said the Earth was not the center of the universe did get into lots of trouble ... more specifically, the Church found that the idea that the Earth goes around the Sun was specifically a heressy. the heressy was lifted in 1751, and recently Pope John Paul II apologized for the way the issue had been handled)

 

[Midnight Star]

i guess my point is that to strain the Bible to say that the Earth is a sphere is just poor exegesis ... you are reading something that is not there

Your right. Often times those trying to prove their point, at any cost, do make up things that just aren't there. If I (or anyone else) were to attempt to do that, even to preserve my/themself or ego, would be a lie, and I can't be as i'm supposed to be, and be a liar. I try my best not to do that. Not that i'm perfect ... i'm far from that - but I wouldn't want the spirit of contention to drive what I say, as not to take someone else who might be reading it, into consideration, or give them the benefit of a doubt. Without mercy or compassion, i'm nothing - since i'm not really better than those around me: I must overcome myself first.

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Mike.

 

[Midnight Star]

found that the idea that the Earth goes around the Sun was specifically a heressy. the heressy was lifted in 1751,

Some of that group claim to even have written the new testament, which is strange, since they really don't follow it all that closely themselves. They seemed to find out early, that peoples belief and fear in God and the unknown (the fields were ripe already - they were ready to believe and learn), the need to know and feel complete, could be aggressively exploited for their own reasons and gain. In all those things, they've done great harm ... but they've done it of themselves, and as such, will be so held solely accountable. Just as if I were to have done it, i'm also held accountable for my own work.

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Mike.

 

[Midnight Star]

btw Andy, i'm not Catholic, or a protestant (although, according to the surveys I go here for lack of another option), and surely don't seek to defend any groups views, atrocities or practices; but I do believe in God, and in many ways, He is my father.

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Mike.

 

[AXL72]

but I do believe in God, and in many ways, He is my father.

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Mike.

You saying you are Jesus, coming again:freak:

j/k

 

[aquanuts...]

i guess my point is that to strain the Bible to say that the Earth is a sphere is just poor exegesis ... you are reading something that is not there

Ok, since you insist on this topic, let me put it another way. Interpret the photo (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/planetary/earth/gal_east-pacific.jpg) and tell me what you see. Do you see a flat round object or a spherical one? Do you see earth or an image of earth? Do you see South America, the Gulf of Mexico and clouds swirling about?

A photograph, painting, or poetic description is just representation of the actual subject. If you take a look at the photo, you can see how the image represents the third dimension by use of light, shade, and shadow. This is an illusion, this picture is just pixels on your computer screen. It is not earth, nor is it a picture, it is a representation of both. This image is actually a file, a numerical code for a color sequence. There is no third dimension, this is an illusion.

One could effectively argue both sides of this coin. It is an image representing a real object, or it is merely a two dimensional rendering of different shades of color.

The interpretation of Job and the earth can be correctly done in both ways. The earth viewed from afar can be seen as spherical (as earth really is) or round (as it is represented), it just depends on which way you want to interpret it- both are correct.