Creation vs. Evolution

[gangrel441]

Mike is certainly not doing humanitarian work only for the sake of doing humanitarian work. I don't want to speak for him but I wouldn't say that he's trying to convert any one either. He's just a messenger who wants to share the hope and love that he found in Christ. The Holy Spirit does the rest. I doubt that Mike would take any credit for any good that might be done through his vocational school.

I vividly remember about 8 years ago, I had a friend with whom I had become quite close. A Chinese girl who was studying in Chicago. Very sweet girl, and I did all I could to show her what Chicago was all about. She cooked Chinese food for me, and I had started to learn to speak some Mandarin from her. One day, she was thanking me for some favor I did for her, and she told me what a good Christian I am. I thanked her graciously, but told her I am not a Christian. She was greatly troubled by this, and struggled for several more conversations I had with her to explain to me that I am a good Christian whether I believe I am Christian or not.

Problem was, I had my own beliefs, which were most certainly not Christian. In insisting I must be Christian and pleading with me about it, she was actually belittling my own beliefs, which I held quite dear.

This is the problem I have...Christians who what to share the gift they have found for themselves are fine. Christians who insist that the gift they have found is the ONLY gift and all people they meet must embrace it are condescending and petty. Sorry if my words are biting, but this one is kind of close to my heart.

Thus the argument I placed earlier. You who are disputing Darwin becuase of "lack of scientific evidence" and therefore arguing in favor of the biblical creation story....show me why the biblical creation story is any better or more accurate than the creation stories of any of the other religions I showed above. Some of those religions are practiced today. Some fell out of existance through war or were abandoned. Some were erradicated in the name of christianity.

 

[MikeFerrara]

i don't have a problem with someone who thinks he has found the greatest thing in the world to want to share it with others as part of making their lives better

in fact, i wouldn't expect them to do otherwise

Not everyone feels that way. People share and promote their sports, food, ideas on government, sex and about anything else you can think of. Some people don't object unless Jesus is mentioned.

 

[Thalassamania]

Please, we're covering evolution here with occasional side trips. I do think that the question of whether or not church sponsored genocide is offset by individual good works belongs somewhere else.

 

[H2Andy]

i think Christianity led directly to our modern concept of human rights, and to the status of the individual in most western societies

(i am not saying human rights is a Christian concept; it is not)

but without Christianity as a basis, the development of human rights in Europe, as we know them today, would probably not have happened (and no, the Greek influence wouldn't have been enough)

so in that respect, as with almost everything else, an entity can be a force both for good and for bad

 

[MikeFerrara]

I vividly remember about 8 years ago, I had a friend with whom I had become quite close. A Chinese girl who was studying in Chicago. Very sweet girl, and I did all I could to show her what Chicago was all about. She cooked Chinese food for me, and I had started to learn to speak some Mandarin from her. One day, she was thanking me for some favor I did for her, and she told me what a good Christian I am. I thanked her graciously, but told her I am not a Christian. She was greatly troubled by this, and struggled for several more conversations I had with her to explain to me that I am a good Christian whether I believe I am Christian or not.

Problem was, I had my own beliefs, which were most certainly not Christian. In insisting I must be Christian and pleading with me about it, she was actually belittling my own beliefs, which I held quite dear.

I suppose that some people just associate the west with Christianity and make assumptions based on that association.

This is the problem I have...Christians who what to share the gift they have found for themselves are fine. Christians who insist that the gift they have found is the ONLY gift and all people they meet must embrace it are condescending and petty. Sorry if my words are biting, but this one is kind of close to my heart.

Don't worry, I usually take biting words ok. LOL.

Since I am a Christian, I do believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. That would be a reasonable definition of a Christian wouldn't it? That's why we refer to Jesus as the Savior. However, I do NOT believe that you or anyone else, MUST embrace it. In fact, I expect that most people are not going to and I accept that.

 

[lamont]

My problem with evangalising to other cultures is that the endogenous belief system will likely have an immune response to the invader. In other words, you are likely to be seen as a threat, which will encourage trends of religious fundamentalism, nationalism, racism, etc. It would be much nicer to see the liberal wings of the different religions reaching out to each other to try to strengthen those liberal trends against the trends of fundamentalism rather than acting in short-sighted self-interest to simply try to gain more converts.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm told that the early Jews believed in individual rights, to the best of my knowledge the Greeks, Romans, Christians, etc. did not believe in individual rights )except for members of the ruling class). Our current concepts of freedom and individual rights really only go back to the 17th century or so.

 

[H2Andy]

yes, but they had to be based on something.

that basis was Christinaity, and its basis was Judaism

(yes, Jesus was a Jew)

 

[Thalassamania]

The Christians had 1700 years to do something about it and lay claim, they failed. Locke, in the late 1600s first (I think) really put it up on the board.

 

[H2Andy]

the conditions have to be right. Locke was working within a milleu that made his ideas possible. that milleu was Christian.

(name an equivalent philos0pher in Bagdad)

likewise, the public has to be receptive to those ideas, and that public was Christian, pre-disposed, as it were, to accept a refinenment of things they already belived, even if in inchoate form