Creation vs. Evolution

[Thalassamania]

Originally posted by CE4JESUS:

If you're discussing the existence of Jesus, most of the world is in my camp.

We don't just think Jesus Christ is the Saviour, we as Christians know that!

Something interesting I came upon on the internet:

Charles (Chuck) Colson was the Chief counsel for President Nixon between 1969 and 1973, he was known as the "hatchet man" and described as President Nixon's "hard man, the evil genius of an evil administration".

He has said the following, I'am quoting:

"I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, and then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world—and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible."26

It is also said and I am quoting:

No one has adequately explained why the disciples would have been willing to die for a known lie. But even if they all conspired to lie about Jesus’ resurrection, how could they have kept the conspiracy going for decades without at least one of them selling out for money or position? Moreland wrote, “Those who lie for personal gain do not stick together very long, especially when hardship decreases the benefits.”25
There are many hard testimonies like that.

That would be a great argument ... if it were true. Colson, a convicted felon and notorious liar does not seem to have learned a whole lot of history since he got out of the Federal Pen.

 

[deco_martini]

Google Kent Hovind

His college diploma is from a diploma mill. He has no credentials, no standing, no peer reviewed papers, and is a convicted tax cheat.

 

[Thalassamania]

Appeals to authority via Chuck Colson and Ken Hovid, unbelievable!

 

[nereas]

I just fail to see any value in witnessing for jesus on a scuba website, nor in witnessing for lucifer and atheism and science in rebuttal.

Religion and science have little in common, and whether you might be an atheist scientist or a religious scientist, what difference does it make now?

 

[Thalassamania]

None at all until the religionists start asking for access to the science curriculum. You don't see scientists demeaning themselves in a quest to take over the divinity classes, do you?

 

[nereas]

None at all until the religionists start asking for access to the science curriculum. You don't see scientists demeaning themselves in a quest to take over the divinity classes, do you?

I think the reason that is happening across the USA in many different states is simply because science is being taught like religion, and like Socrates it is viewed to be corrupting the youth. There really is no new thing under the sun. These conflicts have swung either way throughout the ages.

 

[deco_martini]

I guess what it comes down to is results. We can produce evolution in a lab. If any believer of any deity would like to pray their chosen deity and have him to produce a new species, I would love to be there and observe this phenomenon as it would be a first to be seen by man. You can even a 1 million dollar prize for it through an organization called JREF that has an unclaimed 1 million dollar prize for proof of any paranormal event.

Or if you are really offended by us infidels with our Encyclopedias, Calculators, Research Papers, Scientific Journals, Computers, Models, Hypothesis, Repeatable Tests, Double Blind Experiments, College Educations, Evidence based Acceptance of Fact, and other tools of Lucifer, I will gladly accept the Elijah challenge I made earlier.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3627779-post5571.html

 

[peterbj7]

But deco, no fire would merely prove that fire wasn't created. It wouldn't in any way prove why. We can indulge in whatever circus tricks we may, but that doesn't in any way compel any other person or supreme being to play our game.

We cannot prove the non-existence of (any) god. All we can do is show that we can explain the world without recourse to such an entity. I know eminent scientists (though I dislike that term) who maintain a religious conviction and see no logical contradiction, and others who are rampant atheists. Who can say who is right?

 

[Marvel]

I never undertook to "prove" or "disprove" Alexander. But you happen to be wrong, numerous documents that are contemporaneous survive, including (as you note) logs from his army.

Incorrect, Thal. Those logs do not exist. They were cited by writers who had access to them 300 years or so after Alexander existed. They have since disappeared but we take the word of those writer's who did reference them. But, like you, I do not doubt the existence of Alexander. I used him as an example of how we accept the validity of historical evidence that was written about him 300+ years after he lived. I also cited other historical figures whom we do not have documentation that dates to any where near the time of their lives & yet you ignore it. Pick & choose a lot, don't you?

So, if you have no dog to run in the debate over historical Jesus then you are trolling for the sake of provoking. Whether or not Jesus actually lived or not has no bearing in a debate over creation versus evolution & yet you have dragged this subject up twice now in recent weeks. Why is that, Thal?

 

[Marvel]

That would be a great argument ... if it were true. Colson, a convicted felon and notorious liar does not seem to have learned a whole lot of history since he got out of the Federal Pen.

Ah, thank goodness that there is more forgiveness in my camp. Colson has done much to assist prisoners to transition to a successful life post-incarceration. You may sneer at him because of his illegal activities (40+ years ago) & status as a felon but many Christians consider him a shining example of how accepting Jesus into your life can change someone. The work that he does with prisoners & for prison reform is amazing.