Creation vs. Evolution

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Kevrumbo:
"Now I am getting rather tired of politics. I am tired of all the bloodshed and atrocities commited in the name of some fictitious entity, be his name Uncle Sam, Old Glory, the American Way or any other name.

True Freedom is a fairy tale. Democracy is a theory but it's the best one we have . . ."

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Nonetheless, I still stand behind this Country and the Wisdom of its Principles. Same for Religion as well. . .

People, don't lament, rail and cry hypocrisy for hypocrisy's sake. . .just learn from mistakes, right the wrongs, make restitution, strive for redemption, have Faith in the Good Will of Man. . .
Dont misquote me. Thats not what I was saying at all.
Bloodshed has been happening in the name of religon for thousands of years. The latest rounds of bloodshed are being persued in the name of Allah...The latest in a long line...
And probably not the last...
 
Azza:
Dont misquote me. Thats not what I was saying at all.
Bloodshed has been happening in the name of religon for thousands of years. The latest rounds of bloodshed are being persued in the name of Allah...The latest in a long line...
And probably not the last...
Not a misquotation, but a parallel idea using your premise and what my personal resolution and religiosophy would be. . . ("Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness").

Peace & Long Life
-Live Long & Prosper. . .
 
Hank49:
How much do say, a caucasian from Norway and an Aborigine from Australia share? And can humans produce offspring with chimps? I've always wondered this. If they could, would this be evolution? A new species right away...?

all members of Homo sapiens can mate with each other. every human in the world can have children with another human (of the opposite sex, of course :wink:) we have almost exact DNA.

human DNA is VERY similar from place to place, because we evolved from a very small population chokepoint. about 70,000 years ago, it's estimated that less than 1,000 humans remained alive, perhaps as a result of climate and ecological changes which may have led to the last ice age (70,000 to 10,000 years ago). every human being alive today descends from those 1,000 or so people, so our DNA is very, very similar.

given our narrow DNA range, it's dangerous for us to mate with close relatives. most animals don't have this problem because their DNA range is much, much wider than that of humans. for example, generations and generations of cats mate with sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters, and no ill effects accrue.

at this point, humans are far enough distanced from chimps DNA wise that an offspring is not possible. however, there is evidence that early on, while the two species were closer together, there was interbreeding. this is not as weird as it sounds.

most closely-related species do in fact interbreed. for example, it's hard for dogs and wolves to mate, but they can do it and produce viable offspring. in fact, dogs and wolves are so closely related that dogs are probably more of a subspecies of wolf than their own species. this is not surprising, since human beings "genetically engineered" wolves by taming them and breeding them to produce smaller, less fierce wolves, which eventually became "dogs." but dogs are just wolves, and they are identical genetically (well, 99% identical). the gap between wolves and dogs is only 14,000 years (that is, dogs have been genetically different from wolves -- 1% -- for only 14,000 years. before that, they were wolves).

after a while, as they stick to themselves and less interbreeding ocurs (due to different habitats, habits, etc.), the DNA differences become distinct enough that hybrids will be born some or most of the time. for example, donkeys and horses are
closely related enough that they can mate and have offspring (mules) which can be hybrids but aren't necessarily. there are quite a few species that mate and make hybrids, indicating they are close in DNA terms, but not as close as dogs and wolves.

there are confirmed examples of polar bear/grizzly bear hybrids. this may be one of the ways in which new "species" split off (as the result of two existing species breeding).

at some point, the DNA is distinct enough that no insemination can occur (the sperm doesn't "recognize the egg, and vice versa). likewise, the appearance or behavior of the animals may change so much that they have no "desire" to mate with the other animal or mating is physically impossible.

great wikipedia articles on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid

(please keep in mind that i'm just an amateur at this stuff. i read about it because it interests me, but i am by no means a trained scientist)
 
"Belonged" to as church was a very different concept in the eighteenth century than it is today. I'd advise you read what the founding fathers themselves had to say about their own beliefs.
 
Sharks and primates shared a common ancestor way back when.
 
A few thousand years ago there likely was interbreeding between homo sapiens and neandethals. Some of the neanderthal facial features (in a weakened form) can be found in small population groups of europeans still. Humans were less robust and strong than neanderthal man but they worked better in networks and groups, traded better and essientially the neanderthals were taken over. There was likely a considerable time of co-existance.
 
H2Andy:
all members of Homo sapiens can mate with each other. every human in the world can have children with another human (of the opposite sex, of course :wink:) we have almost exact DNA.

human DNA is VERY similar from place to place, because we evolved from a very small population chokepoint. about 70,000 years ago, it's estimated that less than 1,000 humans remained alive, perhaps as a result of climate and ecological changes which may have led to the last ice age (70,000 to 10,000 years ago). every human being alive today descends from those 1,000 or so people, so our DNA is very, very similar.

given our narrow DNA range, it's dangerous for us to mate with close relatives. most animals don't have this problem because their DNA range is much, much wider than that of humans. for example, generations and generations of cats mate with sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters, and no ill effects accrue.

at this point, humans are far enough distanced from chimps DNA wise that an offspring is not possible. however, there is evidence that early on, while the two species were closer together, there was interbreeding. this is not as weird as it sounds.

most closely-related species do in fact interbreed. for example, it's hard for dogs and wolves to mate, but they can do it and produce viable offspring. in fact, dogs and wolves are so closely related that dogs are probably more of a subspecies of wolf than their own species. this is not surprising, since human beings "genetically engineered" wolves by taming them and breeding them to produce smaller, less fierce wolves, which eventually became "dogs." but dogs are just wolves, and they are identical genetically (well, 99% identical). the gap between wolves and dogs is only 14,000 years (that is, dogs have been genetically different from wolves -- 1% -- for only 14,000 years. before that, they were wolves).

after a while, as they stick to themselves and less interbreeding ocurs (due to different habitats, habits, etc.), the DNA differences become distinct enough that hybrids will be born some or most of the time. for example, donkeys and horses are
closely related enough that they can mate and have offspring (mules) which can be hybrids but aren't necessarily. there are quite a few species that mate and make hybrids, indicating they are close in DNA terms, but not as close as dogs and wolves.

there are confirmed examples of polar bear/grizzly bear hybrids. this may be one of the ways in which new "species" split off (as the result of two existing species breeding).

at some point, the DNA is distinct enough that no insemination can occur (the sperm doesn't "recognize the egg, and vice versa). likewise, the appearance or behavior of the animals may change so much that they have no "desire" to mate with the other animal or mating is physically impossible.

great wikipedia articles on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid

(please keep in mind that i'm just an amateur at this stuff. i read about it because it interests me, but i am by no means a trained scientist)

I was just wondering...because, you know....you could be like....stuck on an island with only a bunch of chimps....and ....like....one of the females could start looking pretty hot after a year or two.....
but think of the child rearing difficulties. "honey, I don't want him eating fleas off the other kids backs......" It could be challenging. :D
 
Soggy:
That was directed towards those in this thread that believe the world is thousands of years old, not billions. You are a step ahead in that you seem to at least accept the possibility that the bible is not to be interpreted literally.

That is not neccessarily true, can you tell the length of time a "day of the Lord" is?



Evolution has most certainly been observed by man, primarily in micro-organisms. The fossil record provides incredibly strong evidence to support the theory on a macro scale, also. Gravity is also a theory. Do you dispute it?

I dispute the fact that nobody has ever observed a mammal like a chimp evolving into a human, sure there are fossils that have been found but there are no facts observed that the fossils found were a species of human. Faith in a Creator is a theory, do you dispute it?

Every time you catch a cold, you are experience evolution in action.

That statement is not evolution in action!



To the best of my knowledge people do not decend from sharks. Do you have information to the contrary?

This is an assnine statement


Please then tell me who wrote the canonical gospels?

You stated that the authors of the Bible were unknown...now you are asking a different question. In the answer to your first question we know that David wrote the Psalms and that Song of Songs was written by Solomon, these are an example, did you need a list of more authors?
 
Thalassamania:
"Belonged" to as church was a very different concept in the eighteenth century than it is today. I'd advise you read what the founding fathers themselves had to say about their own beliefs.

I suggest you read what they have said about God and the forming of this country, receiving a PHD is this field would make me more of an expert than you.
 
Hank49:
I was just wondering...because, you know....you could be like....stuck on an island with only a bunch of chimps....and ....like....one of the females could start looking pretty hot after a year or two.....
but think of the child rearing difficulties. "honey, I don't want him eating fleas off the other kids backs......" It could be challenging. :D

When do you figure you might start looking good to the chimps:confused:
 
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