Creation vs. Evolution

[Warthaug]

I do have a serious question. Don't you as atheist think the following is applicable on you?

2 Peter 1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

So reporting what we observe in nature is heresy now? Strange, that god would create a world which functions and exists in a form counter to what he put in (one of) his holy books...

I can't see how you cannot believe in God. Please explain this to me.

The question wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a whack at it anyways:

Religion/belief in god is irrational; there is no physical evidence to suggest he/she/it has ever existed. The utter lack of a consistent world-wide belief system, and the presence of multiple religions all claiming to have "the truth (TM)" speaks volumes against a supposedly omniscient being. Looking back at the history of many religions, one sees continually adapting belief system, quite often in direct opposition to what their religious texts teach; and more-often than not those changes act to preserve, or increase, the religions power within society. And I see religions acting completely counter to what they teach - violence, war, and hatred all promoted by faiths which claim to be about love and peace...

In short, I see religion, and god, as nothing more than a human invention, who's primary purpose is a mechanism for some to maintain power over others.

I can guarantee you'll find this offensive, but this video does a pretty good job of showing exactly how irrational I find Christianities beliefs:

YouTube - Literalist Christianity through an Atheist's eyes (absurdity

Bryan

PS: no, I did not make that video...

PPS: If you don't want to watch the video, here's the text version:

Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie that is his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a rib-woman was convinced to eat from a magical tree by an infinitely sadistic being disguised as a talking snake with legs.

PPPS: This has been fun, but I'm supposed to be writing a textbook chapter on "Monitoring changing phagosomal lipid composition utilizing recombinant fluorescent proteins". Not nearly as interesting as SCUBAboard, but it pays the bills, so until later (tonight, perhaps)...

 

[Warthaug]

yeah, Newton was very disappointed no one took his religious writings seriously ... he believed that would be his greatest contribution -- apparently he wrote a mammoth interpretation of Revelations

According to Stephen Hawking, in "On the Shoulders of Giants" (no, I do not have outside confirmation of this), Newton's writings on religious matters dwarfed his writings on science. According to Hawkings, among Newtons many topic were things like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". Apparently the answer to that was hidden somewhere in the bible.

While I don't know the answer to the pin question, it may be something in the range of 42...

Bryan

 

[Cacia]

I think it is laughable to reduce the debate to the either/ or and assume it is is all not so vast that we can comprehend *it* on this scale.

I feel certain there is much more we don't know, and that this is really pointless to assume we are in a position to decide one vs the other, that sort of amazes me.

Maybe it is just an excuse to discuss fun topics?

 

[Thalassamania]

I do have a serious question. Don't you as atheist think the following is applicable on you?

2 Peter 1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

I can't see how you cannot believe in God. Please explain this to me.

Let's start with a language lesson.

Heresy is a dislocation of some complete and self-supporting system of belief, especially a religion, by the introduction of a novel denial of some essential part therein.

Thus in order to be a heretic you must belong to the religion and be working to change it in some fashion that those in power think wrong or incorrect. An atheist can never be a heretic.

Next a history lesson: During the Spanish Inquisition Jews were not tried for heresy (unless that had converted) because since they were not Catholics they could not be heretics.

So whatever your Bible is talking about, in terms of heretics, it ain't me babe, but it just might be you.

 

[deco_martini]

I do have a serious question. Don't you as atheist think the following is applicable on you?

2 Peter 1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

I can't see how you cannot believe in God. Please explain this to me.

In the time of Peter, there were already various competing sects including the gnostics whom he was addressing here. So no, Peter is not addressing modern atheists. In any case, if you think that verse is a case of future-telling, then I must sadly point out that there are atheists who are senior citizens and thus were not subject to "swift destruction". Thus your literal interpretation is wrong.

You are misreading "denying the Lord that brought them" into being about atheism or about the future. Btw, the phrase is actually "denying the Lord that bought them".

 

[Thalassamania]

...

Why would you assume that giving up faith = hedonism? If anything, it means the opposite, as determined by multiple studies. One example:

Religousness & violence

Religion = more violence, more teenage pregnancy, more crime, more STD's, more teenage abortions, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line of the paper:

There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms.
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[easyrider003]

And yes I am an atheist

I have grown up in church all my life. Got saved at the age of 15, I am currently 24. Not bashing anyone for being an atheist, although I do not agree with someone being an atheist. I just dont understand how someone could be so happy to be an atheist. I have a career as a firefighter and have been a firefighter for 7 going on 8 years. Yes those numbers are correct, had someone try to tell me otherwise whom I did not even know and had never meet. I have been put in several situations where GOD has been right there with me and I knew it without a doubt. I was almost killed one time in a house fire where the roof caved in. I had a piece of epuiptment, that I never forget to hook up, that I did not hook up. That kept me from entering the building. Had I hooked up that piece of equiptment that day I would have been in there. The guy I would have been behind had to leap out the door as the roof was caving in. Had I been in there, there would have been no time for leaping and would have been headline news and had the most beautiful service anyone could have given me, with me being the "guest of honor". I believe without a doubt that God allowed me to forget that very simple piece of equiptment. And here I am today enjoying the sport that we all love and many other things as well. I could go on and on about how God has helped me throught difficult times that many people have not been so fortunate when faced with the same situations.

So in a nut shell I believe without a doubt that God exist and believe in Creation. God Bless everyone

P.S. I hate to read but was told to read these to books which I would HIGHLY recommend to anyone. I could not put them down. They are
1) 90 minutes in heaven
2) 23 Minutes in Hell

These are excellent. 90 Minutes in heaven will bring a tear to your eye thinking of how AWESOME heaven is and is gonna be when I get there

 

[Thalassamania]

Your experience is not atypical, it is usually referred to as ex post facto rationalization. Had the roof not caved in you'd have said to yourself, gee ... I never forget that and gone right on about your business. Had you hooked up and not been caught in the collapse, you would have focused on some other anomaly that occurred (and there are always anomalies) to interpret as "God's will." Get over it and take control of, and responsibility for, your own life.

 

[Soggy]

P.S. I hate to read but was told to read these to books which I would HIGHLY recommend to anyone. I could not put them down. They are
1) 90 minutes in heaven
2) 23 Minutes in Hell

These are excellent. 90 Minutes in heaven will bring a tear to your eye thinking of how AWESOME heaven is and is gonna be when I get there

Ok and I'd suggest that you read The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins. If you don't believe in evolution, it's because you don't understand it. It happened (and continues to happen).

 

[deco_martini]

I I was almost killed one time in a house fire where the roof caved in.

There are plenty of people the word over who believe in some other God and have good things happen to them. By your logic, their gods exist as well.

For that matter, there are many gifted non-believers who have had close calls with death where chance favored them. By your logic.... Well. Do the math.