Creation vs. Evolution

[Theunis]

How? Be specific.


How is homosexuality (or prostitution, for that matter) "unnatural" (your word)? Many different types of animals partake in both types of behavior, which implies to me that it is entirely natural.


What we need is reason and logic to be our moral guide, not 2000 year old novels.

What is the next enlightened success in our society? When does a community say stop, we had enough of all these enlightened ideas? Where do we draw the line. Should everything be legalise or supported. Should we now consent to polygamous marriages or child porn in the name of art? The point is that we are losing our moral values and it should stop somewhere.

We are humans with rational thoughts. I haven't done any investigation on the issue of homosexuality between wild animals, but in my 40 years visiting numerous game parks I haven't seen 2 bull/2 cow elephants or 2 male/2 female lions, etc ,partake in homosexual activities. However I did see male lions and baby hyenas killing each other. Does this mean humans are entitled to take life as well?

I agree with you, we need logic and reason, and I as well as many like me, do find our reason and logic in the Holy Bible.

 

[Soggy]

Have fun Dude...
Darwin Debunked - Theory of Evolution unprovable
Evolution Debunked
The Kennedy Commentary -- Evolution Debunked!
Evolution Debunked: Analysis of the "Theory of Evolution Made Easy"
Apologetics Press - Yesterday’s “New Reality of Evolution” Debunked Again
Evolution of Life Disproved

Later peeps

I scanned these briefly and saw only the typical BS: no transitional fossils, dating procedures, etc, etc. Nothing new there. It's all based on incorrect assumptions fortunately. Oh, and look, all from sites with a highly religious slant. Yay.

Where are the scientific studies debunking evolution? You know...stuff that isn't made up or a result of gross misinformation and propaganda?

Please try to be a little more original and at least come up with something that has a shred of credibility

EDIT: Looked a little closer at this stuff. It's worse than I thought. Claptrap.

 

[Theunis]

How? Be specific.



How is homosexuality (or prostitution, for that matter) "unnatural" (your word)? Many different types of animals partake in both types of behavior, which implies to me that it is entirely natural.



What we need is reason and logic to be our moral guide, not 2000 year old novels.

Let me list your issues and then discuss them:

1) homosexuality
2) prostitution
3) abortion
4) pornography
5) sins

1) homosexuality

This activity has been around since ancient times, practiced widely in ancient Greece and Rome. It is nothing new. Normally about 10% of the population anywhere is like this (gay/lesbian/bi-sexual).

2) prostitution

In Europe, this activity is considered normal and legal. The nation-states regulate it, in order to ensure safety and disease control. Nations that outlaw this normally have higher rates of crime and higher disease.

3) abortion

I would never want to be the person to tell someone else what to do in the case of their own body. It seems simply wrong to make yourself a judge and jury over someone else. This issue is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible, therefore I do not see where you equate this with "sin." Love your enemies, because failing to do so IS a sin, in case you have forgotten.

4) pornography

This word is a combination of 2 greek words, one for "harlot" and the other for "images of." It is also not mentioned in the Bible anywhere, of course. The ancient Greeks and Romans made statues of nude figures to appreciate the artistry of nudity. Modern artists and photographers do the same thing. Why then do you call it a sin??

5) sins

The most obvious answer to this question involves "who has the right to impose religious-secular values on another?"

I will give you an example. Do you drink wine? If you do, then a Muslim constitution would forbid you, and the punishment would be imprisonment, which would take away all of your property and ruin your career. That would be a steep punishment for you, simply for tasting wine. How about wearing a veil across your face? Or holding hands in public? Same thing. Governments must be secular in order to ensure religious freedom.

Therefore you are essentially supporting your own theocracy, whatever that may be, and at the expense of everyone else's religious freedom. So you are violating the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Therefore you should probably move out of the nation you are in, and instead to another which supports your views, or to an island where you can play god yourself. N'est pas?

You really need to start thinking more, and become more tolerant of the other 6 billion people on the planet Earth with you, and judge your neighbors less, if you want to be "sinning" less than you seem to be now.

My 2 Euros, on this.

1) It doesn't mean it is right.

2) Prostitution may be considered legal in some countries, but surely it is not normal, constructive and enjoyable for most of the receiving parties participating for numerous reasons such as financial survival, etc.

3) Abortion means the taking of human life. It is murder. I am not the judge and jury of anybody else. I am merely stating my views. I am not showing fingers to anybody for I am a sinner myself. Prostitutes, homosexuals, murderers, rapist, etc, are not my enemies and I don't forget that.

4) If the Greeks and Romans did it, does it mean it is right?

5) I am not imposing anything on you. As I have said I am merely stating my own views. You are welcome to have your own views, it is your choice and you have to live by it, but please don't impose it on me.

I am not a Muslim and cannot speak on their behalf.

I am not violating the 1st amendment of the U.S constitution. I,m a South African staying in South Africa. In South Africa we do have a constitution as well and freedom of speach!!

You are mentioning tolerance to others. I am tolerant to everybody, are you? It seems that you and and many other posters here are not very tolerant towards Christians and believers like us.

 

[sheck33]

Have fun Dude...
Darwin Debunked - Theory of Evolution unprovable
Evolution Debunked
The Kennedy Commentary -- Evolution Debunked!
Evolution Debunked: Analysis of the "Theory of Evolution Made Easy"
Apologetics Press - Yesterday’s “New Reality of Evolution” Debunked Again
Evolution of Life Disproved

Later peeps

More creationist BS. How sad.

 

[Hank49]

Like anything, it's a combination. Some people are good at physics or playing a musical instrument, but they aren't going to just figure it all out on their own. Logic is the same way.
Yes, it can be. Some will get it and others won't, but the techniques involved in logical deduction most certainly can be taught.

Of course. But learning *how* to deduct logically is the important part. Most people I see don't actually use logic to come to conclusions. They often think they are, but in fact are making logical errors left and right.

This is a bit off topic but interesting.
You may be able to teach how to think logically, but it would still be very limited because the ability to draw logical conclusions is also very much based on one's experience with the type of problem at hand. AND most importantly, one's natural abilities.
YOu bring up a good point. Why do most people not use logic to come to conclusions? I'm faced with this very often at work. Last week I come in and there are over 1 million dead shrimp on one of our tanks. I ask three workers what happened.
Worker #1. "Maybe it was the flood". (we did have a major flood this week, but not in the hatchery and there were no dead shrimp in any other tanks)
Worker #2. "Maybe the shrimp just wanted to die". (ooookaaayyy)
worker #3. "It looks like someone left the air off, came and turned it back on after the shrimp were dead and isn't admitting it".

Now, all these workers have the same level of experience. The first two obviously aren't very good at logical deduction. The 3rd came up with a more logical conclusion. How do you teach that? I try, believe me. "Use your heads". There are naturals and there are some that will just never get it.

There are many who would see a dead dog by the side of the road, and notice that it rained last night.....and therefore conclude that...rain at night kills dogs.

 

[sheck33]

I agree with you, we need logic and reason, and I as well as many like me, do find our reason and logic in the Holy Bible.

And your 'logic' and 'reason' consists of pseudo scientific 'arguments' that are based on the very conclusions they are trying to 'prove', in any 'scientific study' done by creationists the result is already decided from the beginning, anything not supporting the 'result' is ignored or distorted.

No thanks, I'll pass on that kind of 'logic' & 'reason' and dishonesty. And I certainly dont want this crap taught to young kids.

 

[Theunis]

Theunis, I sincerely hope that's just a language typo.

"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition."

Please excuse typing errors on my side. We have 11 official languages in South Africa.
Afrikaans is my first language and English my second language.

For some the premise that homosexuality is unnatural may be wrong, for others such a premise is correct. It all depends on yourself, I don't think we are going to convince each other to change our minds.

 

[Theunis]

What do you mean here? Are you talking about things like foreplay? Or do you mean having sex with no intention to procreate? Just what is natural sex? Is it like monkeys at the zoo?

I do not talk about thinks like foreplay. That is normal and great between husband and wife.

And I am not talking about having sex with no intention to procreate. God gave us sex to procreate and to enjoy.

Natural sex is sex between a husband and wife in a heterosexual marriage relationship. That is my view on the subject. You are welcome to differ from me and I am not imposing my view on anybody. Maybe you should buy a book on sex, it seems that you have a lot of uncertain issues on the subject.

Believe it or not, monkeys can have great heterosexual sex as well!

 

[Theunis]

All that I know is when I die there'll be a beer volcano and stripper factories...

I respect your humour, but I don't think that is the case.

 

[Soggy]

For some the premise that homosexuality is unnatural may be wrong, for others such a premise is correct. It all depends on yourself, I don't think we are going to convince each other to change our minds.

This is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact that several species of animal participate in homosexual acts. Thus, it is "natural." You can argue that we, as intelligent beings capable of reason and control of our actions should not participate in homosexuality, but then you have to give a reason. But your reason is that someone said so in a book. That doesn't work for me.