Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

One of the principals which this country was founded upon was to protect the rights of the minority. So everything cannot be settled at the ballot box. If everything was settled by a vote this country would look very different in terms of who could do what.

Of course. Our constitution defines the process and limits which we must oporate in.

While I know that some interpret the Bible that homosexuality is a sin,...

Pretty much everyone that I know of. The language is pretty clear in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

are there any prohibitions against working with or hiring homosexuals? Or are there other prohibitions against interacting with homosexuals? I really am curious. The reason I ask is that most people engage in some behavior that others would consider sinful in one way or another yet they willingly interact with these sinners.

Well Jesus spent a lot of time with sinners. We are to encourage each other not to sin. We shouldn't tempt or cause others to sin and we should be careful of temptation ourselves.

We could find much more but for a start see the following references...

Galations 6 Says "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness considering yourself lest you also be tempted." 2, "Bear one anothers burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ."

Romans 14:4 "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed he will be made to stand for God is able to make him stand." 14:13 "Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brothers way."


Matthew 18:11"For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. 12, What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13, And should he find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray."

 

[Thalassamania]

The fact that the bible makes homosexuality a capital crime is just one more indicator that it is a book of fables, perhaps suited to a small desert community long ago, perhaps not, but clearly ill suited to be any sort of a governing document today.

 

[MikeFerrara]

When you get right down to it I do find "property rights" a bit strange, I mean ... how can you own a piece of the planet in perpetuity? After some period of time (granted a long time) it's not going to be here.

When I refer to property rights I'm not refering to the permanent control of land when niether I or the land in permanent. I am refering to rights regarding the home, land, business and other property that one has now.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The fact that the bible makes homosexuality a capital crime is just one more indicator that it is a book of fables, perhaps suited to a small desert community long ago, perhaps not, but clearly ill suited to be any sort of a governing document today.

Old covenant/new covenant again...don't forget the New Testament.

Even so, I don't think anyone is suggesting that we toss our constitution and use the Bible in it's place.

 

[Cacia]

Ya'll should see Ben Stein's new movie...I think it is about evolution, isn't it?

 

[Sas]

Old covenant/new covenant again...don't forget the New Testament.

Ok then, if you follow new covenant theology, (which you seem to imply in past posts), where in the New Testament does it condemn homosexuality explicitly? I can only think of Romans 1, but that could be interpreted as condemning homosexual acts as committed by heterosexuals, or alternatively some homosexual acts (but not all). Also Corinthians 1 is similar but again it is often interpreted as not homosexuality in general but what I have mentioned above.

Or do you still follow Old Testament rules then? And if so, why only a few?

Edit: oh and Catherine, think I'll give that movie a miss. I don't want to be on my deathbed one day thinking that I wasted an hour and a half of my life watching drivel like that when I could have been doing something a lot more useful.

 

[Thalassamania]

Oh ... so the new covenant repudiates everything in the old and new it is not a capital crime to be gay?

God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son."
Abe said, "Where you want this killin' done?"
God said, "Out on HIghway 61."

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ok then, if you follow new covenant theology, (which you seem to imply in past posts), where in the New Testament does it condemn homosexuality explicitly? I can only think of Romans 1, but that could be interpreted as condemning homosexual acts as committed by heterosexuals, or alternatively some homosexual acts (but not all). Also Corinthians 1 is similar but again it is often interpreted as not homosexuality in general but what I have mentioned above.

I think I know what you're getting at. I have read a lot of articles that try to make a Biblical case that "maybe it's ok" but it looks to me like they're really grasping at straws. They want to toss Pauls teaching because he was secxist or because he didn't write it or whatever. You can toss it all, re-write it or just refuse to believe it.

But, if we're going to concern ourselves with what it does say...You've already pointed to several places where homosexuality is mentioned specifically and sexual immorality, in general, is mentioned in quite a few places too.
1Cor 7:2 "Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband."

7:8 "But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they can remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exersize self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

I can only come to one conclusion. Biblically, doing without sex is ok and sex within marriage is ok. Marriage is a man and a woman.

Or do you still follow Old Testament rules then? And if so, why only a few?

Oh ... so the new covenant repudiates everything in the old and new it is not a capital crime to be gay?

The wages of all sin is death...spiritual death. Sin, means being seperated from God.

I think the answer to all the confusion between Old and New Testaments and how it all fits together is "the cross". Jesus fulfilled the law and paid the price that we can't.

I know that was a short answer but my work week starts now and we went over a lot of this earlier in the thread.

 

[Soggy]

Ya'll should see Ben Stein's new movie...I think it is about evolution, isn't it?

It's not about evolution at all, but unfortunately, people think it is.

 

[Sas]

7:8 "But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they can remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exersize self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

So aren't homosexuals considered in the above statement? "For it is better to marry than to burn with passion". Interesting that you think that should only apply to straight people.

The phrases I mentioned have alternative translations that many interpret as regarding heterosexual people engaging in homosexual behaviour (I guess reading between the lines one could assume they are statements against adultery ultimately). I initially gave them to show how the Bible was used to discriminate against homosexuals, not that I agreed with their translation as I gave it.

You can say it is grasping at straws all you want. But many Biblical scholars would disagree with you and so do many Christians. I guarantee any statement in the New Testament you can throw at me regarding homosexuality, I can give you an alternative translation that is considered acceptable by linguists. Seeing as it is so open to interpretation, it is interesting how Christians have taken the hardline against homosexuals but not other areas of Biblical law.

I think the answer to all the confusion between Old and New Testaments and how it all fits together is "the cross". Jesus fulfilled the law and paid the price that we can't.

Which is why I invited you to explain how you've made the cross, and asked for Biblical references. Even within the same denominations of Christians there is fierce debate about how certain phrases can be interpreted and how to make the cross into New Covenant theology.

But yea, not that I care what the Bible says as far as it relates to my life. Just hate how many Christians try to use it to impose their world views on others when what they are asking for impacts them in no way.