Creation vs. Evolution

[Gombessa]

So, I guess that means that I'm not going to get to be a girl scout and homosexuals are going to have to get used to not being invited in as ministers in some churches?

I guess I can live with that.

That's all fine as a matter of opinion, as long as you can accept that both are common sense and legal definitions of discrimination in the US. But like the below statement, the point was not about the narrow (and IMO petty) subject of homosexuals "being invited" in as ministers of churches, but rather the factual point that the bible's anti-homosexual views have been and in fact still are vigorously used to promote broader discrimination against them. Let's have the mutual respect here to not try to re-frame the issue on some trivial point.

Well, I think one will find that most/many churches wouldn't have a minister who makes a habit of adultery, theft or a host of other "sins" either.

I'm just going to say that this is moving off-topic and is unresponsive to the point of the bible's views being used to promote discrimination against homosexuals. That point being said, I think I'm done here.

 

[RV]

my god (no pun intended) is this thread still going on... LOL

 

[AXL72]

OK....moving on, so as not to make any one feel like they are being targeted.

So...no one addressed Pam's interesting question. forgive me for forgetting that it may have been brought up previously in this thread, years ago .....but did homosexuallity evolve or did God create it as part of his master plan....making some people gay/lesbian (or bi)...just like the spitting image of himself?

and if homosexuallity evolved, then does that argument alone, bring home the win for evolution, not creation?





"I don't wanna be a freak...but I can't help myself" <==80's mix

 

[MikeFerrara]

That's all fine as a matter of opinion, as long as you can accept that both are common sense and legal definitions of discrimination in the US. But like the below statement, the point was not about the narrow (and IMO petty) subject of homosexuals "being invited" in as ministers of churches, but rather the factual point that the bible's anti-homosexual views have been and in fact still are vigorously used to promote broader discrimination against them. Let's have the mutual respect here to not try to re-frame the issue on some trivial point.



I'm just going to say that this is moving off-topic and is unresponsive to the point of the bible's views being used to promote discrimination against homosexuals. That point being said, I think I'm done here.

If you look back through the conversation, you'll see that I didn't re-frame the issue on some trivial point.

I asked how homosexuals were discriminated against and a primary part of the answer was that they can't be ministers in some churches.

 

[Soggy]

Of course I can but you can do a quick google search and get it yourself.

I can do it for you if you want but I'm not going to be on the board much for the next couple of days...work and all that.

I tried, but all I came up with was stuff with a christian slant. I couldn't actually find a real study. I even tried excluding the terms christian and catholic.

 

[Kim]

......they can't be ministers in some churches.

If they go public.

There's nothing to stop them if they don't tell anyone.

Christianity is really good at "Don't ask, don't tell".......

 

[Soggy]

If they go public.

There's nothing to stop them if they don't tell anyone.

Christianity is really good at "Don't ask, don't tell".......

Actually, the Priest in my wife's church was openly gay.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The second is a pretty broad overview of the history of a biological cause of homosexuality and does suggest that there is a strong link.

I hope you find them interesting.

Rachel

It was interesting but I don't think that it shows a "strong" link. Below, is what seems to be the "climax" of the second article. 11% for adopted twins and 52% for identical twins? That makes for a pretty poor correlation...ie an almost useless predictor.

It does seem to show pretty strongly that, even if there is a genetic "predisposition" that it doesn't explain very much of the variation. Something else is having as great or greater effect. My statistics may be a little rusty (don't use nearly as much of it shoeing horses as I did as an engineer) but not only is the 52% not a very strong correlation but when we consider the 11% of the adopted twins (none of that can be genetics) or get down to looking at sample size, stadard errors, significance tests ect, it amounts to almost nothing.

In other words, I agree with the last few sentences of the conclusion (in bold) but just prior to that they stuck in the phrase "highly attributable" which, while a relative term, seems to contradict their own conclusion.

That is, in fact, what the study found. Bailey and Pillard reported a gay-gay concordance rate of 11 percent for the adoptive brothers, 22 percent for the dizygotic twins, and 52 percent for the monozygotic twins. The findings suggest that homosexuality is highly attributable to genetics—by some measures up to 70 percent attributable, according to Pillard. This figure is based on something geneticists call "heritability," a painstakingly calculated indicator of how much genes have to do with a given variation among people. If heritability is less than 100 percent, then the characteristic being studied is by definition "multifactorial." Eye color is 100 percent dependent on genetics. Height, on the other hand, though about 90 percent genetic, is also affected by nutrition, and thus is multifactorial.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I tried, but all I came up with was stuff with a christian slant. I couldn't actually find a real study. I even tried excluding the terms christian and catholic.

Most of what I found has some slant, one way or the other. While they cite other sources or studies, I don't have a way (the time) to verify the cites to see if they're legit and taken in context.

Here is one such article that contains cites such as this

Centers for Disease Control, 65 percent of all AIDS cases reported since 1981 involve men, who have engaged in sexual relations with other men. (SOURCE: “HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report,” The Centers for Disease Control, Volume 9, No. 2, May 1998.)

The Gay Lifestyle: Nothing Joyful about the Facts

 

[Kim]

Actually, the Priest in my wife's church was openly gay.

I'm also aware of a situation that's not mine to disclose......more than to say I know it exists.