Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

How does being gay cause trouble? Who is being harmed (other than the bigots who, through insecurity, cannot tolerate something that seems different).

Homosexuality seems primarily harmful to those who engage in it...higher rates of STDs, domestic violence, mental health problems, drug abuse and so on.

Intolerance causes trouble. "Sin" is a construct made up in a society thousands of years old. Some of us have evolved since then.

The intolerence word again. Some would have us believe that they are a legitimate minority. While I don't understand how one's sex acts makes them a minority like blacks, hispanics or whatever, the gay "agendy" seems intolorent (down right hostile) toward "traditional" values, specifically Christian.

But what is this intolerance you talk about? What would they want from me before they stop calling me/us a "homophobe" or accusing me/us of intolerance? What rights or privilages do heterosexuals have that homosexuals don't? We all get to work, pay taxes, ride on the bus and vote. I haven't heard of anybody being denied entry into a store or access to public services because of sexual orientation. ok, I guess here in the US we have the military policy that seems to be a problem for some.

What else do they want? The "tax/inheritence benefits" of married people? Our tax code is so messed up that it would take a lot more than that to fix it. The group that is screwed the most by our tax code is successful people.

The last few pages of this thread shows that the big complaint of one poster seemed to be that they can't be ministers in some churches even though she is an athiest and doesn't want to go to church. That's a bit odd isn't it? That she is upset that I don't want her for a minister when she doesn't even believe in God?

She didn't even bring up the "tax/inheritence benefits" thing so apparently her complain isn't economic. What is it? Do they demand that I call it marriage? Sorry, they aren't going to get that no matter how much you make fun of my religion.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Restate: Why would anyone *choose* to commit that particular "sin", when a reasonable alternative exists? (i.e. just be attracted to the opposite sex)

Do you remember, at some point, consciously making a decision to be attracted to women? (As in: "Hmmm...I guess I could go either way, but I think I like the girls better.") No, you didn't, and neither did I, because it was always a "given" for us that we were attracted to the opposite sex. We just knew we were straight, right? In the same vein, do you think that being attracted to the SAME sex (rather than opposite) from as early as you can remember (a "given") is something a homosexual has *chosen* to do? You really think homosexuals have made a conscious *choice* to be gay? I guess you would have to believe that if you believe that god doesn't create what he then declares to be "sin."

What information have you come accross that supports any of that?

 

[CZ_Diver]

What information have you come accross that supports any of that?

Those were questions to you and you answered none of them.

 

[MikeFerrara]

two of the best monogamous couples i know happen to be gay

please educate yourself before attacking something you don't seem to know much about

First of all my point was that "attraction" doesn't have to dictate actions. Second of all, what makes you think that I don't know much about it?

Thirdly, attacking things we don't know much about seems to be the mode of the thread. Just look at the wild statements about Christianity and Christian doctrin.

also, it seems to me that adultery is not limited to gay couples, n'est pas?

Of course not but how do you think the monogomy rates or numbers of partners between homosexuals and heterosexuals compare?

 

[Soggy]

Homosexuality seems primarily harmful to those who engage in it...higher rates of STDs, domestic violence, mental health problems, drug abuse and so on.

Can you please provide some citations for these claims?

If they are true, one would have to also look at the *reasons* for them.

 

[DiverBeth]

Since this thread has been revived again people are stating their opinions, which whether I agree with them or not is great.

Now for those of you who put so much faith in the Bible I always wonder which version do you follow? Are you aware that if it's English it was translated from another language? And that wasn't probably the original language?

When I was growing up and going to Hebrew school we had to translate the Torah in class. Fights broke out now and then (punches were thrown) over translations not what the meaning was but how you would write it in English. The Torah is believed to be originally written in Aramaic not Hebrew.

So do we truly know what these books mean or are we to search for our own meanings or lack thereof? You're free to believe what you want just don't make me live by your religious beliefs or lack thereof or tell me who I can love or marry.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Those were questions to you and you answered none of them.

No I didn't but I'm not asking for anything. Why don't we leave the burden of proof with those who are trying to convince us that something needs to change?

I haven't come across anything that offers any proof that anybody is born "wired" that way or that it's genetic.

Most of what I find seems to tend toward it being a learned behavior, choice, some sort of emotional issue or a combination but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

If you know of something else, point me to it and I'll take a look.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Can you please provide some citations for these claims?

Of course I can but you can do a quick google search and get it yourself.

I can do it for you if you want but I'm not going to be on the board much for the next couple of days...work and all that.[/QUOTE]

 

[MikeFerrara]

Since this thread has been revived again people are stating their opinions, which whether I agree with them or not is great.

Now for those of you who put so much faith in the Bible I always wonder which version do you follow? Are you aware that if it's English it was translated from another language? And that wasn't probably the original language?

You mean they weren't using English 2000+ years ago in the middle east? LOL

But yes, I think we all know that. Some Bibles even contain information on translation methods along with notes in the text to indicate differences between different texts or translations.

For all the hot debates between theologens on translation differences, they all come out remarkably similar. Of course, when in doubt, or for further study, folks do word studies and so on.

So do we truly know what these books mean or are we to search for our own meanings or lack thereof? You're free to believe what you want just don't make me live by your religious beliefs or lack thereof or tell me who I can love or marry.

I think you should love everybody but I don't think you're going to have a lot of luck trying to get all of us to except a new definition of "marriage".

 

[wreckchick]

More Evidence that Homosexuality is Genetic

Homosexuality and Biology

The first of these articles shows that homosexuality can be genetically engineered in fruit flies and although I'm well aware that fruit flies are not people, it does show that tinkering with genetic structures can cause same sex attraction without the societal influence that people put upon each other.

The second is a pretty broad overview of the history of a biological cause of homosexuality and does suggest that there is a strong link.

I hope you find them interesting.

Rachel