That would be fine standard operating procedure in many locations, but the currents in Cozumel make this a lot more difficult. Being left on Villa Blanca for a few minutes is very different then being left on Baracuda or San Juan for a little while. As I said being left on Villa Blanca I would have managed up north I would be pretty worried.
Cozumel Incident 9/4/11
- Thread starter boulderjohn
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That would be fine standard operating procedure in many locations, but the currents in Cozumel make this a lot more difficult. Being left on Villa Blanca for a few minutes is very different then being left on Baracuda or San Juan for a little while. As I said being left on Villa Blanca I would have managed up north I would be pretty worried.
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Common? Probably not. However, it isn't rubbish either ... in some parts of the world it's just business as usual.
But if this is in reference to the dive that led to the incident under discussion, let's please clarify something. The planned 300' dive in this case wasn't a tech dive ... it was a stunt.
It would depend on the situation ... but if this is a properly planned tech dive, that question is going to be asked and answered during the planning stage ... and everyone on the boat will know what the answer is before anyone gets in the water.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
As a non-tech diver, it seems to me that it would just be a matter of timing. Depending on the exact planned profiles, I can see it working like this:
Everybody hits the water. If there's a problem, you recall everybody.
Rec divers come up for their SI. If there's a problem, everybody can be recalled.
Tech divers are still down. If one of them has a problem, they can follow their procedures to get back to the boat, where the rec divers are having a snack.
Rec divers go back in. Tech divers are doing (finishing?) their deco. If there's a problem, again, you can recall everybody pretty quickly.
Tech divers finish deco and reboard. Rec divers finish their 2nd tank, do their ascent and reboard.
Perhaps someone with actual tech training will tell me that's all rubbish, but to my ignorant mind it makes sense.
And a 100% agreement that this was not a tech dive. It was a stunt. Nor do I think it should be called an accident. What happened to these three, while tragic, was the inevitable result of their poor choices.
Please correct me if I'm wrong -- wouldn't this combined tech / rec dive be more common in situations were the boat has to travel some distance (hour +) to the dive site? Example - Flower Gardens, Texas. Seal Island, San Carlos, Mexico.
The plans are known by the boat, for both rec & tec.
I know the San Carlos sea lions think the tec divers' smb (shot when they go on deco gas) is a toy. :blinking:
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I haven't dived in those locations, so I cannot address them specifically. I have done "combined" rec-tech boats in the San Juan Islands, on the wreck of the Diamond Knot, and in Nootka Sound (Vancouver Island). In these cases, tech depths and deco schedules are often determined by topography, and usually don't run more than about 90 minutes total. Therefore what boat captains will do is to drop the tech divers in first, and then have the rec divers start gearing up. By the time the rec divers get in the water, the techies are well into their dive ... and in some cases already leaving the bottom. If a tech team has a problem, the rec team can easily be recalled. If the reverse, the tech team is already on the ascent anyway.
I'll point out that this diving is in a fjord, where shore is relatively close by ... although "shore" in many cases is remote and uninhabited. This approach may not work well for situations where divers are far offshore, or diving in places where there's lots of boating/shipping traffic. And in some cases, doing a combined rec-tech boat may indeed just be a bad idea. But you can't just make blanket statements without considering the depths, run times, topography, and potential hazards of the particular location.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Just for the record . . .
If I come up to the surface and the boat is gone, I will assume there is a damn good reason, and that an alternative will be around shortly. If there is a line, I'll hang on, pop SMB, put my feet on the mooring ball, etc.
However, I will have - before the dive, informed the boat of my safety devices and dive plan, so if the SHTF we all know there is a reason we aren't where we said we'd be, and the other actions accordingly.
cenotist
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No, Dirty-Dog it is not completely rubbish. Your ignorant mind works quite well. I am one of the tec-divers who is guilty doing my tec-dives mixed with rec divers. How it works, is that I always give the captain copy of my profile, so he knows how to plan the dives. Depending on my plan and current and other group, he tells me when I can jump in. I always trust captain and dove with him for years.
How we communicate emergencies? Every tec divers should have 2 markers red and yellow. The book says, that you should deploy yellow when your dive is OK and red in the case of emergency, but since so many rec divers use red as a regular one, we have an agreement with captain that yellow is for emergencies. On a buoy we can attach a note about the type of emergency we might have.
So, when captain sees my red (safe) marker, he can concentrate on his rec team. Actually I have been floating sometimes with my buoy for 20-30 minutes before I shall be picked up and I do not see anything dreadful in that. Maybe if you have too many curious burning molluscs around you, you do not enjoy this company too much. We have an agreement, that if our dive is OK, the rec divers have ALWAYS priority over us they are on holiday, having fun and this is how it should be. When you are a tec diver, you know better the risks and you accept them and try to be really careful in order to keep you diving for years.
About the discussion around this specific captain actions (involved in this case), please try to keep separate the theory of remote sites and practise in this specific case (when nearest taxi was only 10 minutes from the boat).
PS! Having tec divers on board is usually a good thing (we carry more oxygen, usually have ability to go for a deep rescue, on many cases have better training to evaluate the conditions of injured person, etc ), so we are not necessarily a risk, more likely an asset. Or maybe I am wrong?
nauticab
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this thread is getting to long IMPO, and i will start a new one in A&I with all the facts, straight from the mouths of the 2 dms on board and the captain. that way you can focus on the facts, plans to prevent this from happening in the future, and what would you do in this situation.
what i will post should clarify the situation at hand of what happened, above and below the surface.
what i will post should clarify the situation at hand of what happened, above and below the surface.
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