Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[Davki]

It's driving me crazy that people keep saying there is no dive insurance for dive professionals in Cozumel. THERE IS DIVE INSURANCE THROUGH TRAVELER EMS/DAN WORLD! Sorry for the caps, but people, please know that DMs and others can be insured. I know because I pay the bill for it for the dive professionals for a Cozumel dive shop. I spoke personally with DAN when they made this change a few years back. DAN made the decision to have another organization provide dive coverage in Mexico and Brazil. I know there are local advocates trying to change it back to DAN coverage and I hope they're successful, but in the meantime, coverage is available through Traveler EMS. PERIOD

 

[scubawife]

I think that over at http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/395669-thread-split-dan-insurance-cozumel-dms.html it's been determined -- from both direct contact with DAN and review of DAN documents -- that such coverage *is* available. However, the medical coverage for dive accidents is very very low -- only $5K for any incident occurring in Mexico.

I saw that, but when Cozumel shop owners and dive pros are still unclear on what is or not available specific to Cozumel, and the fact remains that there are DMs and shop owners on the island totally uninsured, there's something wrong. I have a hard time thinking that there are ex-pat business owners there who wouldn't spend a couple hundred bucks a year to insure themselves if it was that easy. Mexican nationals could be a different thing if they have a public healthcare system available to them.

 

[DandyDon]

It's driving me crazy that people keep saying there is no dive insurance for dive professionals in Cozumel. THERE IS DIVE INSURANCE THROUGH TRAVELER EMS/DAN WORLD! Sorry for the caps, but people, please know that DMs and others can be insured. I know because I pay the bill for it for the dive professionals for a Cozumel dive shop. I spoke personally with DAN when they made this change a few years back. DAN made the decision to have another organization provide dive coverage in Mexico and Brazil. I know there are local advocates trying to change it back to DAN coverage and I hope they're successful, but in the meantime, coverage is available through Traveler EMS. PERIOD

But it's limited to $5,000 USD on local treatment isn't it?

There are two threads on this in the Cozumel forum.

 

[cenotist]

With a decent SAC rate the numbers allow a bounce to 300 feet on an 80, but there is no room whatsoever for error.

Higher SAC than expected,a minutes delay on the bottom,not stopping quickly enough at 300,too slow on the descent,too slow on the ascent, pretty much anything not just right and you're screwed.

To put some numbers on it,one extra minute on the bottom works out to around an extra 700 psi being used!

And let us not forget narcosis!!! Many of us have severe narcosis from 150-200 ft. Including delayed reaction, deceitful feeling of confidence, slow analysis, dizziness, deceptive vision, short loss of memory,… When technical divers do their test dives to see their narcosis level, they experiment this in a controlled conditions. It is understatement to say that at 300 ft the symptoms are more than SEVERE!!!

 

[scubawife]

It's driving me crazy that people keep saying there is no dive insurance for dive professionals in Cozumel. THERE IS DIVE INSURANCE THROUGH TRAVELER EMS/DAN WORLD! Sorry for the caps, but people, please know that DMs and others can be insured. I know because I pay the bill for it for the dive professionals for a Cozumel dive shop. I spoke personally with DAN when they made this change a few years back. DAN made the decision to have another organization provide dive coverage in Mexico and Brazil. I know there are local advocates trying to change it back to DAN coverage and I hope they're successful, but in the meantime, coverage is available through Traveler EMS. PERIOD

So is there a lack of communication out to the industry in Cozumel, or are there just a lot of shops, dive masters and instructors who are not wanting to pay for insurance, or can't afford it? Do they think that if they have a dive accident the mexican healthcare they get without additional insurance will cover them? If the coverage is only $5,000, that's not going to make much of a dent in the bills if you need several chamber rides any kind of specialized care.

In this case there's an American shop owner totally uninsured, and a Mexican dive master without any secondary dive accident coverage, and I'm wondering if this is the norm or the exception?

 

[boulderjohn]

WSOPFAN, I suspect that my dive computer has data for dives from multiple trips. How is it that data is "not preserved?"

Different models of computers have different amounts of memory. In many cases it won't be long before the newer dives are writing over the older dives.

With a decent SAC rate the numbers allow a bounce to 300 feet on an 80, but there is no room whatsoever for error.

Higher SAC than expected,a minutes delay on the bottom,not stopping quickly enough at 300,too slow on the descent,too slow on the ascent, pretty much anything not just right and you're screwed.

And let us not forget narcosis!!!

And let's add going deeper than planned, which is often a product of narcosis.

Let's say you planned to dive to 300 and your buddy got narced and went to 400. You go get him. Running him down and bringing him back to 300 feet could use half an AL80 by itself. That will not leave you much for your ascent.

 

[fdog]

Are computers downloadable...yes. Is it always easy...no..

I'll admit that Janet & I are the exception - we both dive Sensus Ultras in addition to our regular computers. The Sensus is easy to download data from.



Not because we use it for dive logging (why most folks use it), but, it's always tucked away in a pocket as a "black box". In addition, the Sensus allows you to load onto the unit a text file that contains all our insurance & medical information.


I also have an agreement with all my dive buddies, and especially my technical dive buddies, for complete disclosure - including Sensus files- if I screw up and smoething bad happens to me. If it shows that I was stupid, well, so be it.


All the best, James

 

[scubawife]

But it's limited to $5,000 USD on local treatment isn't it?

There are two threads on this in the Cozumel forum.

I've spent more time on this board in the last few days then I have in the last year. Trying to keep up with all these threads and what's been said where and in what context, well, I have to step away, it's sucked away time I don't have.

After day 2, there's really no new information pertaining to the events that occurred that resulted in having 3 divers with serious DCS, and all we know about their condition is that they are all still being treated, 2 in the US now and one still in Cozumel. Other then that, it's a lot of tail chasing and some bickering.

On the insurance, whatever is or isn't available and what it does or doesn't cover, the provider sure needs to do a better job of getting their information out to their market - the dive shop owners, dive masters and instructors in Cozumel. From a consumer stand point, it makes me think... I wouldn't get on a bus knowing the driver is uninsured, do I want to get on dives if the DM or shop is uninsured? I know it's not the US, etc., etc., and I accept all that. I also know we sign waivers and whatever happens to us is on us. I'm fine with that too. BUT, if something happened to a dive master while on a customer dive, and a family is left without the means to pay and is faced with months or no income, does this turn into a situation similar to all too many stories about car accidents? I have no idea. With that said, I do have to say that I've been going to Mexico for over 20 yrs on a regular basis. The people I've gotten to know there are, imo, nothing but hard working, honest and wonderful people. I don't think anyone would have a malicious intention, but when things happen and your back is against the wall you sometimes just have to do what you have to do.

 

[scubawife]

Are computers downloadable...yes. Is it always easy...no..

I'll admit that Janet & I are the exception - we both dive Sensus Ultras in addition to our regular computers. The Sensus is easy to download data from.

View attachment 103061

Not because we use it for dive logging (why most folks use it), but, it's always tucked away in a pocket as a "black box". In addition, the Sensus allows you to load onto the unit a text file that contains all our insurance & medical information.


I also have an agreement with all my dive buddies, and especially my technical dive buddies, for complete disclosure - including Sensus files- if I screw up and smoething bad happens to me. If it shows that I was stupid, well, so be it.


All the best, James

We've got those too. I always call it my "little black box" (I have the old model that actually is black). If anything ever happened to me, it's a great resources. It gives much more detail then my dive computer. It measures and records more frequently. It can also be a good learning tool to see what your dive profile really looked like.

For anyone who doesn't have a sensus, check them out. Well worth the price.

 

[Jax]

With a decent SAC rate the numbers allow a bounce to 300 feet on an 80, but there is no room whatsoever for error.

Higher SAC than expected,a minutes delay on the bottom,not stopping quickly enough at 300,too slow on the descent,too slow on the ascent, pretty much anything not just right and you're screwed.

To put some numbers on it,one extra minute on the bottom works out to around an extra 700 psi being used!

Could someone describe this bounce dive to me?

According to V-planner, VPM-B +1, descent = 50' / min

CNS = 220%, and it would take 105cf of gas -- assuming a deco profile with stops beginning at 70fsw.

That's like way more super aggressive than just "no room whatsoever for error." IM non-experienced O.