Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[Texas Torpedo]

The sad thing is that the third diver is a professional stunt man with movie credits.

I believe he is a special affects guy who has dabbled in stunt work.. Not a professional Hollywood stunt man. If it matters.
I'm sure hanging out with him would not be boring.

From his myspace page:

About me:
THINGS TEND TO GET A LITTLE HOT AROUND ME AND MAY SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST OR EXPLODE !! I have no idea why (LOL) it’s happened most of my life. I was…… well I wouldn’t say “bad”Kid but maybe mischievous thank god someone gave me an outlet for my combustible personality. Or I might be doing 20 to 30 up-state (LOL) kidding they would never catch me. > Anyway I have been working in the film industry going on 17 years now. I do Special Effects and a few Stunts here and there. Ask my friends who know me real well they will tell you I’m a BIG KID at heart (and maybe in life as well) Hollywierd is my playground and ill be here the rest of my life. Where else n this crazy world is someone going to ask me to use explosives in a capitol building, set fire to a school, make snow in the middle of summer or tell me I have to SCUBA diving all day long? Oh yea forgot that all comes with a nice big paycheck as well. Check out my pics and vids for some of the things I have done. I’ll add new stuff when I can.

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Warning: we have received a report from a user who encountered some kind of malware either on Myspace or something linked there. Please be aware.

---

Myspace Link: heath on Myspace

 

[DandyDon]

That is why you have a health care directive and that you make sure its contents are widely known among family and friends. You DO have a health care directive don't you?

I don't want to hijack this anymore than it has drifted at times, but still - after watching my dad as I mentioned, I wonder: If I think I am having a heart attack, do I really want to call for help, knowing that they will load me in a chopper and I won't have any recourse from there on?

Yep, so did dad. Didn't help. Once one is helpless in a hospital bed, certain treatments are still done regardless, no matter how hopeless.

I've probably had Jesus as a boat driver in Mexico, but never God.

AFAIK, it is different in Mexico. These aren't usually actual sea-faring captains that could command a huge vessel and crew, but rather locally trained guys who are good at motoring an outboard a mile or two to spots they know well and then watching for bubbles, probably changing tanks and helping divers out of the water as well. The DM, who might even be the owner of the operation and the captain's boss, is the one who usually seems in control, determines the dive site and profile, etc. So using your terminology, DMs are Gods in Mexico. And just like Gods everywhere they appreciate offerings, but nowadays it's usually a cash tip instead of a sacrified chicken.

Correct, and Mayans have many anyway.

I believe he is a special affects guy who has dabbled in stunt work.. Not a professional Hollywood stunt man. If it matters.
I'm sure hanging out with him would not be boring.

Yeah it was. We chatted just a bit, but some funny stories that told me to stay at a great distance if he started working with explosives.

 

[gypsyjim]

Yep, so did dad. Didn't help. Once one is helpless in a hospital bed, certain treatments are still done regardless, no matter how hopeless.


Correct, and Mayans have many anyway.


Yeah it was. We chatted just a bit, but some funny stories that told me to stay at a great distance if he started working with explosives.

Always respect explosives, even tiny stuff can make for big problems. I can not imagine actually being paid to blow stuff up! THAT would be a dream job.

My brother in law used to work for a small time demolitions guy, and he had some very hair raising stories.

 

[MMM]

That's too bad. It worked great for my Dad. Maybe it depends on how it is worded. I would strongly recommend that everyone have one as it is better than nothing until laws are introduced to allow assisted suicides etc. We treat animals with great compassion than human beings at times.

Yep, so did dad. Didn't help. Once one is helpless in a hospital bed, certain treatments are still done regardless, no matter how hopeless.

 

[scubawife]

Hard to believe that the bravado on the boat didn't include boasting of the final depth and that the captain didn't hear. Plus, which captain doesn't ask "how long will you be down?" "Nine minutes, skipper" should have been a dead giveaway (assuming the words were not slurred).

There are people on the various threads... you included... who are implying that they know or suspect that a diver or divers were under the influence prior to the dive. So why not just come out and say it if you know something? Or if you weren't there but have heard it from someone who was, then encourage them to come out with the facts.

Really, at this point, with the details that have come out, I think it's safe to say that anyone reading this thread, and the divers themselves, know they made bad decisions and I'd hope they would want others to learn from their mistakes and realize that nobody is invisible. If they were drinking or stoned or whatever, what the heck, might as well get that out there too. The two worse off don't have insurance so it's not like they'll be losing benefits if there was yet another bad decision added to this whole disaster of a dive.

 

[WSOPFAN]

So why not just come out and say it if you know something? Or if you weren't there but have heard it from someone who was, then encourage them to come out with the facts.

Special Rules for Accidents & Incidents Forum

The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.
Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow. To foster the free exchange of information valuable to this process, the "manners" in this forum are much more tightly controlled than elsewhere on the board. In addition to the TOS:

(1) You may not release any names here, until after the names have appeared in the public domain (articles, news reports, sheriff's report etc.) The releasing report must be cited. Until such public release, the only name you may use in this forum is your own.
(2) Off topic posts will be removed and off topic comments will be edited.
(3) No flaming, name calling or otherwise attacking other posters. You may attack ideas; you may not attack people.
(4) No trolling; no blamestorming. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes.
(5) No "condolences to the family" here. Please use our Passings Forum for these kinds of messages.
(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.
(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.
(8) If your post is about legal action that concerns a mishap, use the Scuba Related Court Cases forum.

See rule number 6...........

 

[scubawife]

WSOPFAN, Ok, so "they" either are the source, can encourage the source to come forward, or can site the source.

Anyone with reasonable intelligence knows exactly what "they" are saying. Time to stop beating around the bush and come out with it already. Either that or stop with the insinuations.

There are 2 of these divers who are still appealing to the kindness and generosity of friends, family and strangers to cover their expenses... and that won't change anytime soon. Anyone who would not donate to assisting with their medical expenses, I'm pretty sure, has already made that decision based on finding out this was an accident caused by poor judgement and even poorer planning. Finding out they were under the influence of something when these decisions were made might actually gain sympathy... it certainly, IMO, won't lose them any.

So again, those who are hinting that one, some or all the divers were under the influence of whatever, please either step up and spit it out, or drop those hints from any future posts.

 

[WSOPFAN]

WSOPFAN, Ok, so "they" either are the source, can encourage the source to come forward, or can site the source.

Anyone with reasonable intelligence knows exactly what "they" are saying. Time to stop beating around the bush and come out with it already. Either that or stop with the insinuations.

There are 2 of these divers who are still appealing to the kindness and generosity of friends, family and strangers to cover their expenses... and that won't change anytime soon. Anyone who would not donate to assisting with their medical expenses, I'm pretty sure, has already made that decision based on finding out this was an accident caused by poor judgement and even poorer planning. Finding out they were under the influence of something when these decisions were made might actually gain sympathy... it certainly, IMO, won't lose them any.

So again, those who are hinting that one, some or all the divers were under the influence of whatever, please either step up and spit it out, or drop those hints from any future posts.

I was just saying that as this thread progressed it was heavily moderated for 2nd hand posts so no "we" can't say what "we" know or have heard. Can "they" post what "they" know? Sure they could but "they" don't want to cause "they" are living there or employees or friends of employees or customers or former customers. Tell you what.....if you think Cheech and 2 Chongs may have been similar to the true story then feel free to ask around to get someone to post first hand. Who knows maybe you will find out someone was on the dock minutes before the dive who were witnesses to them bragging about a "deep" dive but that is just my "theory" .

 

[boulderjohn]

I think the discussion of any kind of inappropriate substance prior to diving is counterproductive.

If people hear rumors and spread them in a forum like this, then it is the worst kind of rumor mongering. It does nothing but sully the reputation of the divers whilst creating a war of "who told you that?" and "where did you get that?" posts.

Let us hypothesize that someone had concrete and indisputable evidence that something like that had taken place. Once again, it would harm the individuals, but what would be the balancing benefit? How would the diving community as a whole benefit? I submit that, if anything, it would be harmed. I think the dive community as a whole has benefited from the realization that dive plans like this are dangerous. I would not want that realization to be tainted by the sense that they are only dangerous if preceded by incapacitating alcohol or drugs.

And so, as someone who has absolutely no concrete information of anything like this, I really hope that we can put an end to any spreading of rumors of this sort.

 

[scubawife]

Again, my point is that the people making the not so subtle hints need to either keep them out of any of their future posts, or substantiate the insinuations.

MOST recreational divers have the common sense in them to not even consider this type of dive. MOST divers of all types of diving understand the dangers and follow the "don't drink and dive" philosophy.

There will always be thrill seekers in this and other adventure sports. There will always be dumb arses who insist on having a beer or ingesting their substance of choice between dives. If you really think that something the fringe group reads on ScubaBoard... if they even bother following it, which isn't likely... then I think you're really overestimating their thought process and the reach of this board into that segment of the diving community. I also feel that you're not giving the majority of the members enough credit if you think they could take all the bad decisions made that lead to this accident and just chalk it up to "they were (insert whatever excuses here), so it wasn't their fault."

I'm not trying to spread rumors. I have no first or bystander second hand direct info. I think that if the posters who are being not so subtle with what they are not saying know something directly, then they should put it out there as it's a part of the puzzle. If they are just relaying what someone told someone who overheard it at a bar from someone who heard it over dinner from someone who heard it at the beach club who heard it from someone who... etc., etc., then they should drop those references and hints from their posts.

100% sober or otherwise, this was a really bad plan with really bad execution. If they were or were not under the influence, it was still a bad plan. If that hinted at piece of info is true, it's just one more bit of bad judgement to add to the list here. I don't really see that being counter-productive if it's the truth. Anyone who would actually conclude that doing this dive sober vs not would make a difference is truly just another candidate for the process of natural section.