Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[Texas Torpedo]

Thanks David for your report. Do you, by chance, know if this was the first dive of the day for the divers involved? And if not, what their SI was? Not that it makes a huge difference given the profile...

No, I don't, but I'll see if I can find out.

 

[ggunn]

WSOPFAN, I suspect that my dive computer has data for dives from multiple trips. How is it that data is "not preserved?"

I am curious how "many people" could know the details of the planned dive and actual events. One of the injured stated in another thread that a downcurrent forced them lower than planned...yet several pages back, someone stated that a downcurrent was not a factor.

Hi Dave.

That's what I have been thinking. There are only three people who could possibly know all the details of what did and did not happen on that ill-fated dive, and if they didn't stay together the whole time, there may be details that even all of the three of them do not know. Everyone else was somewhere else. Just because some details have not as of yet come to light does not in and of itself prove a conspiracy of silence.

 

[scubafanatic]

...which touches on the 'moral hazard' concept......would donating $ essentially be subsidizing irresponsible behavior, thus encouraging future irresponsible behavior ? Also, with respect to insurance, those of us who have (and pay good $ for) insurance, feel it unjust to have to pay our own way to have access to health/medical resources while others 'freeload' ? I could probably afford more actual scuba diving if I didn't have to pay my pesky taxes/insurance....while others don't have those costs and get to have fun at the expense of the financially responsible people ?

.....the US economy (and the European economy) are all still essentially on their knees over the issue of moral hazard......the subsidy of irresponsible behavior......the US taxpayer bailing out all the banks.....Europe bailing out Greece and others......a living breathing example of moral hazard that's impacting all of us daily !!!

...yeah, I know it sounds harsh, especially when the 'victims' divers families/kids are involved, who are innocent bystanders, of course......but I'm putting this out there anyway, because I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this......

 

[ggunn]

It was called the post-office game when I was a wee-tot.

We called it "the gossip game". "Post office" was something else entirely.

 

[WSOPFAN]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee View Post
WSOPFAN, I suspect that my dive computer has data for dives from multiple trips. How is it that data is "not preserved?"

I am curious how "many people" could know the details of the planned dive and actual events. One of the injured stated in another thread that a downcurrent forced them lower than planned...yet several pages back, someone stated that a downcurrent was not a factor.

Hi Dave.

That's what I have been thinking. There are only three people who could possibly know all the details of what did and did not happen on that ill-fated dive, and if they didn't stay together the whole time, there may be details that even all of the three of them do not know. Everyone else was somewhere else. Just because some details have not as of yet come to light does not in and of itself prove a conspiracy of silence.

It has been explained that divers leveled off then another kept going and 1 pursued in an apparent effort to rescue that diver. What downcurrent was happening while 1 diver stayed at a shallower depth than others? Wouldn't that suggest the downcurrent claim is close to if not 100% fabricated?

 

[DandyDon]

That can only be categorized as an accident.

Of course it was an accident. No literate & sane person would honestly call it otherwise.

What Texas Torpedo has posted regarding this incident is about as close to the truth as you will get at this point. I got the same information from one of the divers and it wasn´t the one that is doing the best. The location, the dive plan to 250', what occured at the planned depth, the ascend buddy breathing on one tank, going back down to 60-70' this was his account as to what happened.

Thanks. Technically that's second hand info (first hand would be someone on the dive posting), but it's rare we get that close to the source - and I'm sure it's as close as we are going to get here.

It has been explained that divers leveled off then another kept going and 1 pursued in an apparent effort to rescue that diver. What downcurrent was happening while 1 diver stayed at a shallower depth than others? Wouldn't that suggest the downcurrent claim is close to if not 100% fabricated?

Just don't try to ride that horse, ok. The down current story was disallowed some time back I think.

 

[WSOPFAN]

...which touches on the 'moral hazard' concept......would donating $ essentially be subsidizing irresponsible behavior, thus encouraging future irresponsible behavior ? Also, with respect to insurance, those of us who have (and pay good $ for) insurance, feel it unjust to have to pay our own way to have access to health/medical resources while others 'freeload' ? I could probably afford more actual scuba diving if I didn't have to pay my pesky taxes/insurance....while others don't have those costs and get to have fun at the expense of the financially responsible people ?

.....the US economy (and the European economy) are all still essentially on their knees over the issue of moral hazard......the subsidy of irresponsible behavior......the US taxpayer bailing out all the banks.....Europe bailing out Greece and others......a living breathing example of moral hazard that's impacting all of us daily !!!

...yeah, I know it sounds harsh, especially when the 'victims' divers families/kids are involved, who are innocent bystanders, of course......but I'm putting this out there anyway, because I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this......

I agree......I was going to bring the insurance issue up for various reasons.....I would assume that other divers might be upset at the thought of paying 1 cent of anyone's medical bills who acts like this. Those 10's of thousands of dollars should be reserved for people who actually have accidents not divers who are so galactically irresponsible and wreckless. A lesson I am sure new divers would be well intentioned to take to heart when reading this.

 

[ggunn]

If it was a dive to go anywhere past 100, they were inadequately equipped, and therefore the dive was inadequately planned and inadequately prepared.

Yo tambien. Years ago I went on a planned dive at Maracaibo to 150+' on an AL80. All the way up in and out of deco I kept thinking to myself that it was a stupid thing to do and how thankful I was that nothing had gone wrong down there. I won't be doing that again.

I hasten to add that that is my own decision and made only for me. I have no quarrel with all those who may chime in with how possible it is to do that dive "safely", but it's beyond the level of risk that I am willing to assume. YMMV.

 

[cruiser]

the coverup is totally predictable.....I took a TON of flack for reporting the INCREDIBLE level of devastation the reefs of Coz suffered from Hurricane Wilma in 2005 ( I was there 02/06) ......and the business powers that be didn't really appreciate my dismal report back then either !

I feel for ya, scubafanatic. In the Coz forum there should be a sticky stating: "Dissenting opinions will be greeted with disfavor." Thanks for charging forward, and making your report anyway.

 

[WSOPFAN]

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