Cozumel-Diver lost

[Mawg]

I know Betsy and have for many years and she is RIGHT. Most of the post I have read are so far from reality it is not funny. I don't know where to begin. I write and erase and wright again. NOBODY takes 18 divers to punta sur in 1 group! So forget that. 99% ot the shops run 1 guide for every 6 divers. No Capitan will let a diver go down after surfacing at Punta Sur. If you are seperated from the group the dive is over. And this post " It could have been as simple as a new regulator that failed. " I do believe free flowing regulator was a part of your certification.... ( sorry for the sarcasim... ) Where were you on that day??
Cozumel has the right to investigate what happened and will let people know the results when they have determined them. Quit trying to show "what you know". It really shows what you don't.

I was diving with Caribbean Divers about 5 years ago and there were 16 divers on their boat the " Fuerza" . Cesar and Ruben were both on the boat that day. I was surprised when they said we were going to Devils Throat. They split us up into 2 groups, one group of 10 did the throat and the others did another section of Punta Sur. And regulators dont just free flow when they fail. A buddy of mine who has been diving longer than I have had a brand new reg. lock up on him on a night dive off of Key West. No air at all. And as far as " Cozumel " letting us know the results when they have determined them, we'll see. I sincerely hope that they do. It would be a mistake not to.

 

[Scubabobcozumel]

" A buddy of mine who has been diving longer than I have had a brand new reg. lock up on him on a night dive off of Key West. No air at all."

Again a second hand report
Sorry MAWG regulators are downstream fail safe systems ( I am a equipment repair specialist. Dacor, Sherwood, US Divers certified.) When they '" Break they go in to free flow. They do not lock up. Your second stage may fry... that is why you have an octopus... ie alternate air source.

As far as investigation go. The primary Investigation is done by the Federales de caminos y puertos. You also have the orginazation " Parque Marino de Cozumel" who give all dive guides their permits to work there. I have mine... I was certified as an Instructor in 1992. I dove every day some times 2 boat trips a day ( 4 dives a day ) for 10 years in Cozumel. Most accidents that happen are DIVER ERROR. When you are certified you are taught that you must take responcibility for your self. I have always taught that you make your own decisions. I have taught many, many people to dive. To say I had 3000 dives would be a huge under statement.

and when you went to punta sur with dive carribean. TThere were 2 guides with your group of 10. one in front and one in back. I know Cesar who was the owner of dive caribean. that is a 5 to 1 ratio.

 

[Mawg]

" A buddy of mine who has been diving longer than I have had a brand new reg. lock up on him on a night dive off of Key West. No air at all."

Again a second hand report
Sorry MAWG regulators are downstream fail safe systems ( I am a equipment repair specialist. Dacor, Sherwood, US Divers certified.) When they '" Break they go in to free flow. They do not lock up. Your second stage may fry... that is why you have an octopus... ie alternate air source.

As far as investigation go. The primary Investigation is done by the Federales de caminos y puertos. You also have the orginazation " Parque Marino de Cozumel" who give all dive guides their permits to work there. I have mine... I was certified as an Instructor in 1992. I dove every day some times 2 boat trips a day ( 4 dives a day ) for 10 years in Cozumel. Most accidents that happen are DIVER ERROR. When you are certified you are taught that you must take responcibility for your self. I have always taught that you make your own decisions. I have taught many, many people to dive. To say I had 3000 dives would be a huge under statement.

and when you went to punta sur with dive carribean. TThere were 2 guides with your group of 10. one in front and one in back. I know Cesar who was the owner of dive caribean. that is a 5 to 1 ratio.

I'll give you my old friends phone # then you can phone him and call him a liar too. Really scoring points for Cozumel tonight , BOB. And, it's Caribbean Divers. I went with the group of 6, dont know how many DM's went with the group of 10, we went in first. Wanna call me a liar on that one too, BOB?Dove with them for several years and I can remember times when Ruben was our only DM in groups of 8 to 10. By the way, I consider Ruben to be the best DM on the island. Always felt safe with Ruben, ALWAYS. Currently, we dive with Careyitos and have for 4 years now.

This thread is about a lost diver and what happened to her, not about how great you are BOB. We want to know what happened because it is not ALWAYS diver error, BOB. Believe it or not, I have been out with some DOs' that I thought put me and my wife at risk. Safety comes first, always.

 

[redacted]

Where was it you found their OFFICIAL reports?

 

[Scubabobcozumel]

The main official agency is the Capitania del Puerto and do license all the boats that work the Marine park. Parque Marino gives the permits to the dive operators.
And the PROFEPA are the actual " Police in the Water" They have boats checking on the dive shops. Guarda parque is the name of One such boat. Criminal investigations are done by and the Federales.( Procuradaria, May be spelled wrong... lol) Results of investigations are public information and can be found at The Municipal. ( The court house ) in Cozumel.

A local paper and a good source of information is Por Esto of Quintana Roo.

So you know. I know studio Blue and Manuel the owner. They are a good shop. I can tell you that no one wants some thing like this to happen. Most errors are on the part of the diver.
I read all the posts and just like Betsy. I am pulling my hair out. Cozumel has thousands and thousands of divers every year. 99.99999999 return safely.


Waterskier1, I am sorry if I was snappy in my post but this is an Island I love and want to protect.
The shops work VERY hard at providing the best possible experience, safe and secure.

That is why we must wait for the investigation to finsh. I will post again.

 

[Scubabobcozumel]

Love to have his number. We can discuss you...

 

[Ayisha]

Granted Devils Throat is an advanced dive, but there are many advanced dives in this world. I don't think simply being an advanced dive was the cause.

Devil's Throat is not just an advanced dive, it is a very advanced overhead narrow environment that can go beyond recreational limits, especially being outside of the light zone and sometimes beyond 130 linear feet from the surface. If someone were to have a problem or be OOG in a narrow area, a buddy may not be able to get beside them and a guide would not even know if there are several divers ahead and behind the troubled diver. let alone get past the other divers. Most divers there do not use a long hose, so parallel donorship could be an issue.

I believe the specifics of the dive were discussed/shown to help people who have not done this dive to understand why this site should not be treated as just another advanced dive.

Apparently the divers went down and she returned for more weight. By the time she headed back down the current had moved her too far from the group and she missed the base of the throat

If she was allowed to ascend/descend alone and hit the entrance herself, the fault is certainly not only her own. When I did it, we were told that we needed to descend right away. If we took too long to descend, we would miss the entrance and it would be bye-bye DT. If the first person missed the entrance, it was bye-bye DT for everybody. Anyone who did not make the entrance with everybody else was going to do just another dive. So, no one was going to have a second chance - forgot a weight belt or whatever, too bad. All of our divers made it, so we didn't test the rules.

In the nine times I've been to the Coz, fast boats, carrying a max of six divers usually make that run...

We had one boat of 12 divers doing Devil's Throat out of our group of 74. There were many more who wanted to go, but who were not allowed by the dive op and/or our instructors.

The year before there were 10 out of our group of 39. Again many more who wanted to go than they would allow.

It does happen.

Returning to the boat for more weight is a huge Red Flag, that has always been a drift situation getting down.
You would lose your group in a heart beat.

Agreed.

Some people posting in the interest of "Cozumel" appear to be excessively irritated (defensive) regarding any discussion about this accident, are blaming the accident solely on the victim, are refuting most information divulged, and yet are not willing to set the record straight. It's not looking good for "Cozumel".

 

[aubie85]

umm, this is scary! I'm going to Coz in 2 months. Hopefully, she's okay, I don't want to come across any bodies.

Okay that was a bad comment. I hope that she turns up. Perhaps she had an accident and is suffering from amnesia, and she is safe somewhere at some hospital.

 

[fisherdvm]

. 99% ot the shops run 1 guide for every 6 divers.
[/B]" I do believe free flowing regulator was a part of your certification.... ( sorry for the sarcasim... ) .

I disagree with point A. Not 99% if shops obeyed this rule. I believe we had between 6 and 10 divers on most dives with 1 DM in cozumel.


On point B, as it has discussed on scubaboard before, SSI and several other certifying agencies do not teach management of free flowing regulator. Even if you did know how to manage it, being in an over head environment at 100 plus feet will not give you more than 1 minute of air.

My son, my niece, and my nephew are certified by SSI - none of them were trained on management of freeflowing regulator. We just discussed this at dinner 3 weeks ago when we dove together. I asked my son's SSI instructor why this was not done, his replied is "we have no way of creating a free flowing regulator", an implication that it might not even be taught at a higher lever. My sister and her husband were certified by SSI, and were taught how to manage free flowing regulator. In my opinion, SSI should rethink this, I've had a regulator free flowed on in the pool when the diaphram got stuck in an improperly assembled regulator cover (rental). So depth and cold temperature is not always a requirement.

It is not in the requirement of many certifying agencies to teach this skill, but good instructors will teach it outside of the SSI format. I think Walter said only PADI and YMCA require it in their OW course.

 

[pilot fish]

I am tearing my hair out after reading this whole thread!!..........NOBODY should be thanking the person who volunteered the HEARSAY information!...........it is 90% false and so are the rest of the "speculations" and "guesses" on this thread. For shame!........I suggest waiting for an OFFICIAL report and then, and only then, can you all take away those learning experiences that you all say you are waiting for. Sorry to vent but this is insanity. Show some respect please!

Betsy

Betsy, what do you base your "it is 90% false" statement on? How do you KNOW it is false? The reason for the speculation is that there might not be any OFFICIAL report, as has been the case in other accidents in Coz. I think a few posters tried to point that out to you?