Course progression to Tec diving

[MattyS]

hello all,

I have been diving regularly for about 5 years. I mainly dive to 18m or less to hunt lobsters.

I have just got my first backplate and wing setup. Once I get used to it I am planning to do some more training to work up to dive some wrecks that sit in about 42 m.

I will start with my Padi advanced open water and nitrox as I think I will need to do them before I can do the below.

My question is whether it is worth doing the Padi deep and wreck courses or going straight to TDI advanced nitrox and decom procedures courses. Seems like doing the TDI courses will provide a hell of a lot more knowledge and safety.

Not sure if I will go further with tec diving but you never know.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Cheers

 

[Scott]

Yes, the Advanced Open Water and Nitrox are required prior to the technical courses PADI offers.
TDI requires (SDI Advanced Adventure or equivalent), 25 logged dives and TDI Nitrox for AN/DP.

What it may be worth doing is talking with prospective instructors. PADI has a Deep Diver prerequisite or proof of 10 dives deeper than 100 ft. The reason you may want to have a talk is, if you go into the shop with your log or 10 100 foot dives thinking you'll get a course, they may not accept you into the program and make you do Deep Diver anyway or charge you to do a couple deep dives with them.

The PADI Wreck Diver is purely a recreational course. You would have to find an instructor with the Advanced Wreck distinctive specialty rating for a more technical course.
Similar would be with SDI/TDI. SDI Wreck Diver is recreational while the TDI Advanced Wreck is more technical.

TDI AN/DP is equivalent to PADI Tec 45 if you want a comparison of sorts. Either one taught right with the right instructor will provide you with enough knowledge to safely execute the dives you plan on doing

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I would pursue a technical route instead of recreational specialties if you are interested in the training and experiences that can be learned in tech classes. Since this is the Hogarthian forum a tech instructor with a cave diving background might be your best bet.

 

[MattyS]

Thank you for your responses.

Would your advice change if I said I wasn't interested in going deeper than 40 m and getting into mixed gases etc?

Where does GUE fundamentals sit within the above? Seems like it might be a good course to do if I am just looking to be a "safe" diver up to 40 m.

 

[tbone1004]

I'm with @Trace Malinowski and I would recommend avoiding the PADI progression if you want to go into proper technical diving. I asked the mods to move this out of the Hogarthian section since there isn't really any particular reason to have it here vs. the technical/advanced diving section.

To your original question @MattyS , I personally think at 40m you are in mixed gas territory. After about 30m, I think you're in mixed gas territory, but I may be biased because I narc rather easily. In that case, I advise going for something like IANTD's Deco Procedures with Advanced Recreational Trimix, or TDI's Advanced Nitrox/Helitrox/Deco Procedures *basically the same courses that are about 1 day longer than AN/DP combined, and allows you to use helium for narcosis management to 45-50m*. Something @Doppler made me aware of and is a huge proponent of that progression. I personally think that if you plan on flirting with 35-40m, it's a much better decision.

I'm not a GUE diver, but am a huge fan of what they do. My understanding is that Fundies will basically be your AOW/Nitrox class *though will be VERY different than a PADI class*. It's basically SCUBA boot camp, and because GUE doesn't dive air, nitrox is required. What it will not do that the PADI AOW will do, is teach you to go deep, i.e. deeper than 60ft/18m. It SHOULD trump PADI's AOW/Nitrox in the eyes of most technical instructors eyes as a prereq for something like Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures or equivalent.

Check GUE's website for instructors in your area. If you go down that path and there is an active GUE contingent in the area, keep in mind that they do dive trimix below 30m. For you to progress with them into Tech 1, which certifies you for basically Advanced Nitrox, Deco Procedures, and Normoxic Trimix in one go, it will allow you to go to 170ft/50m. You can obviously choose to dive deep air, and I think PSAI is the only agency that still teaches deep air diving. Not really recommended in my opinion, but to each his own.

What GUE gives you in that regard is guaranteed top notch instruction. What it doesn't necessarily give you is exactly what you are after. In your situation, I would consider doing GUE fundies, which will give you nitrox and one heckuva foundation to progress, and then consider going to TDI for something like AN/DP

 

[jfe]

I would pursue a technical route instead of recreational specialties if you are interested in the training and experiences that can be learned in tech classes. Since this is the Hogarthian forum a tech instructor with a cave diving background might be your best bet.

I have to agree, switch to SDI/TDI and work through them to tech, no need to stay with PADI as SDI train on the fundementals you'll need for TDI AN/DP

 

[MattyS]

Thanks for your responses.

I have done some digging and checked with the local "dive buddies" page and there isn't a local GUE instructor (apparently you can arrange for one to fly in if you can get enough numbers and it looks like there is a fair bit of interest). Someone recommended doing AN/DP and then doing GUE Fundamentals after.

Looks like I will do PADI advanced and nitrox before I can move on to the TDI courses. Thankfully, there are a few good TDI instructors in my area, although some of them require you to have more than 10 dives over 30 m, which require something like the PADI deep course to be able to carry out.

So much to do!

 

[tbone1004]

Thanks for your responses.

I have done some digging and checked with the local "dive buddies" page and there isn't a local GUE instructor (apparently you can arrange for one to fly in if you can get enough numbers and it looks like there is a fair bit of interest). Someone recommended doing AN/DP and then doing GUE Fundamentals after.

Looks like I will do PADI advanced and nitrox before I can move on to the TDI courses. Thankfully, there are a few good TDI instructors in my area, although some of them require you to have more than 10 dives over 30 m, which require something like the PADI deep course to be able to carry out.

So much to do!

why stay with PADI for that? contact the TDI instructor that you want for AN/DP and ask them to do an AOW/Intro to Tec/Nitrox course with you, that forces you into the right path from the beginning

 

[stuartv]

If you do TDI AN/DP, you will need to have double tanks and a doubles wing. And a doubles regulator setup. And an AL40 for deco gas, with its own reg. If you don't already have all that stuff and you're not ready to spend all that money, then I would keep that on the back burner.

You already meet the prerequisites for TDI Nitrox. I would suggest taking that versus SDI Nitrox or PADI Nitrox. The curriculum is more thorough and that will cover your prerequisite if you do decide to pursue AN/DP.

I would also suggest taking the SDI or PADI full specialty courses for Wreck and Deep. That should give you a lot more training and better equip you for diving to wrecks at 40m than just taking AOW. IMO, if you do those, there's not much benefit to taking a specific AOW course.

If you do get around to taking TDI AN/DP, I would strongly suggest finding an instructor that can include Helitrox as part of that course. The cost should be the same. The dives and skills are the same. The only difference is 2 chapters of the book (physiology and dive planning) will be a little different because they'll include helium in the discussion. And when you're done, you'll be certified for exactly the same everything as AN/DP, except you'll also be allowed to use up to 20% Helium.

Lastly, I would definitely suggest to get Nitrox, Deep, and Wreck under your belt and go do some of the diving you want to do. Get some experience doing that before you worry any further about whether to do AN/DP/Helitrox or Fundies or Adv Rec Trimix or whatever. After you do some diving like that, you'll probably know what you want to pursue next. You may find that you narc easily and want to get some capability to use Helium or you may find that you never get narced enough to be concerned about and choose to just stick with using Nitrox. Personally, I am not very experienced with it yet, but I have used trimix a couple of times at depths less than 150' and now I just don't bother with it unless I'm going deeper than 150' (45m). Which is only meant to say that everyone is different and you should work yourself up gradually (in training and in experience) and figure out what works best for you.

 

[boulderjohn]

[Sigh]

I see the usual PADI bashers are at it again.

I began my tech instructor career with TDI. I eventually crossed over to PADI Tech and taught both for a while. Then I saw no point in staying with TDI and am no longer active with them.

You said, "My question is whether it is worth doing the Padi deep and wreck courses or going straight to TDI advanced nitrox and decom procedures courses. Seems like doing the TDI courses will provide a hell of a lot more knowledge and safety."

Where did you get that idea? I certainly did not count the words, but I would bet the PADI course materials in the tech program have more than twice as much content as the TDI materials. Why would the TDI program be any safer? I cannot think of a single, itty-bitty way the TDI program would be safer.

Before you make a decision, get specific facts about the different programs--don't rely on bashing myths. More importantly, find out about the specific skills of the instructors you are considering working with.