Convince me to get a bottom timer...

[Blackwood]

1) "counting the knots as you go up".......what exactly do you do at 150'? Or are you carrying some huge spool...?

:mooner:

 

[orange_diver]

:mooner:

Ah, yes, the lost DIR formula for happiness.

 

[Bismark]

1. My spool is 150' actually and it's not huge at all. deepseasupply. Plus, i wouldn't be starting deco at 150', i'm not doing those dives yet. more like first deep stop is at 110'.

2. My team is my redundancy. If some DIR divers wanna carry a backup BT, I could care less. I'm not the DIR police. Just saying you don't NEED one and pointing out some alternatives as to why.

3. That is not the deco schedule that I use, i was merely saying for a NON-ratio deco diver doing a NDL dive that a 3 min safety stop should at the least be made. The OP is not using ratio deco.

4. Why would you say something like this? What post have i made that suggests my knowledge of ratio deco is faulty? I've done abt 100 dives using RD so far and not a bend in sight.

Now here's a question for you: in MY scenario, the only way i would need to even bust out a knotted spool is if i had TWO failures, which we don't plan for. So, now i have a scenario for you: your TWO bottom timers both crap out. those are YOUR 2 failures. what do you do now? carry a 3rd BT?

Sorry if I came off a bit confrontational. The problem with the internet is that it is bloody difficult to convey emotions.....

You may want to look at the OP's comments again. You brought in RD even though the OP is a long way from doing any deco dive. Telling a Recreational diver the answer if RD is like telling a plumber the answer is calculus...no offense to plumbers.....

If you feel that carrying a backup bottom timer is unnecessary because you prefer to rely on your team, ask yourself what kind of a liability you will become to your team when your single bottom timer packs it in. Hope much extra effort is it to pack an extra bottom timer? Put it in your pocket if you want. For a small amount of effort, you can avoid a whole slew of potential problems. I admire your decision to approach diving from a team perspective but I would suggest that you don't let that reliance turn into a liability. If the **** hits the fan, it might be very useful that you could run the deco and let your teammates worry about something else.

As to your 150' spool with knotted line, if you were not going to shoot your bag immediately after you realized your BT crapped out, how would you know when you arrived at your first deep stop? (110' or otherwise) I also submit that you are going to be fairly task loaded counting knots on your spool for the next 25 minutes or so........

I understand the party line about not planning for two failures, but you may want to think this part through a little more. Just a suggestion. A back up bottom timer is a pretty small piece of insurance. You might also find, as I do, that having a time keeping/depth keeping device on each wrist is pretty handy. I use either one, depending on what I am doing at the time. Just some advice based on experience.

As a side note, in my tech II class, one of my team mates was using bottom timers and was "advised" to get something with a second feature. Puts everyone on the same page for resets, etc.

Also, happy to hear that you have 100 dives using RD and you have the discipline to hold yourself from hitting that next level where you need a 150' deepstops. Too many people go charging ahead without building the confidence and experience first. Good job.

 

[Bismark]

:mooner:

You carry a huge reel on regular ocean dives?

 

[Blackwood]

You carry a huge reel on regular ocean dives?

No.

Ah, yes, the lost DIR formula for happiness.

Actually, I miscalculated. This more accurately describes the situation:

 

[Bismark]

I think this is true only when you turn off the computer and turn on the brain. Otherwise, you just get better and better at depending on the computer.

It's hard to "kinda" use your computer. There came a day when I just switched my computer to gauge mode and that was it - computer data gone. Now I really had to rely on my own brain, and at first it was a bit unsettling. But pretty soon I realized that there was more data in my head that I could access than I had thought. I started doing the 1 min moves on NDL dives and came out feeling better than when I did that 3 min, 15' SS my computer made me do (it was extortion, really. If I didn't do exactly what the computer said, it would punish me, and wouldn't let me dive again for a while).

After some non-computer dives under my belt, there was a day when I realized how much more free my diving felt - less controlled by the gadgets and more controlled by my own abilities - not that it's difficult to add two numbers to get 120 (or 80% of that). In fact, all the noise on the internet made it sound much more difficult than it really was to apply.

The computer doesn't know how old I am, how cold I am, how much I exert myself before, during or after a dive, how hydrated I am, how much sleep I've had, or any of that stuff about my buddy. I am different than every other diver, and every dive is different, but the computer just spits out the data the same every dive. And I actually used to trust that! I trusted my computer until the day I spent in the chamber with type 2 DCS, and my computer said I was clear. Granted, the hit was my fault. But I realized that the computer could not know anything about me and what I had done.

My bottom line is that I dive for fun, and for me it is a lot more fun and safe using the superior computer, the one always with me, the one that has all the data right at hand without even looking at it.

People should learn to dive without the computer, try it for a hundred dives, and then say which they like better. Most of the people who argue for letting the computer tell them how to dive have not the experience to compare and comment on the benefits of non-computer lead dives.

This is easily the most concise and well written essay I have ever read on the matter. Truly excellent. Well done.

 

[Bismark]

No.



Actually, I miscalculated. This more accurately describes the situation:

Too funny. Math is hard..........

Do you really have knots (intentional.....) in your spool/big mutha' of a reel?

 

[Blackwood]

Too funny. Math is hard..........

Do you really have knots (intentional.....) in your spool/big mutha' of a reel?

I thought about knotting the whole thing. Then I imagined the rat's nest that would likely ensue from my attempt to put a knot 790 feet into the line and thought better of it.

I do have have knots at 10' increments in my spools.

 

[Bismark]

I thought about knotting the whole thing. Then I imagined the rat's nest that would likely ensue from my attempt to put a knot 790 feet into the line and thought better of it.

I do have have knots at 10' increments in my spools.

I am not a cave guy so a 800' reel is not in my immediate future........

I have dove with some people who used a black marker and marked off 10' increments on their spools but no knots.

 

[Bismark]

I thought about knotting the whole thing. Then I imagined the rat's nest that would likely ensue from my attempt to put a knot 790 feet into the line and thought better of it.

I do have have knots at 10' increments in my spools.

By the way, I see that you guys are all west coast DIR trained. Does AG suggest the knots and single bottom timer thing?