Continuing Your Scuba Education (long post)

[Buoyant1]

Reading and knowledge is good...practical aplication is the best!

btw...TS & M, what good online reading resources do you have? I'm always up for a good read!

I'm currently reading through the AUE site, just finished reading through the DIR site...

With that in mind..I'm going diving his weekend! second time in the quarry this season! WOOHOO!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

At least one agency (GUE) requires its recreational course instructors to hold a certificate in either technical or cave diving.

That's technically true, but somewhat misleading.

In order to teach a GUE class, the instructor must be certified to at least one level above the class they're teaching. And GUE only has one non-tech class ... Fundamentals. Therefore in order to teach Fundamentals, you have to be certified to at least Tech 1 or Cave 1.

However, you must hold those certifications with GUE. In other words, someone who's tech trained by another agency ... even to a much higher level ... would not be able to teach Fundamentals ... even if they've taken and passed the class and show a much higher proficiency level than is required to teach it.

I know a NAUI Tech instructor who wants to teach Fundies ... but in order to do so he must retake Tech 1 or Cave 1 with GUE, basically paying a lot of money to pass a class that isn't likely to teach him anything.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[brutus_scuba]

Look beyond the cards ... find a good mentor ... or better yet, more than one ... and go diving every chance you get.

Some of the most useful things I've learned about scuba didn't come from a class ... although many of them ended up in one of the classes I now teach. A good example is my gas management seminar ... I learned most of that stuff from diving with Uncle Pug and other mentors who've picked it up through practical experience over the years.

There is simply no better way to learn than bottom time with someone who knows what they're doing ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think one thing that may have been under represented in my post above is that I am diving just about every weekend and very frequently with folks that are better divers than I am. Especially over the winter. Over the winter when no students are really doing check out dives and what not it was a great chance to go out diving with folks with tons of expeirence. I am very fortunate to have a good friend who is a very very skilled instructor in many agencies both recreationally and tech diving. I have also not been afraid to call other well respected divers in the area and tagged along for a weekend. Some of my college buddies think it's wierd that I go off for a weekend with a group of guys in their 40's but I learn so much I love it.

The other half of the weekends that I'm in the water I'm serving as a DM for an instructor friend of mine. Those are always great weekends because we spend three days at the quarry (two nights) and I usually help with 2 or 3 check out dives and then do 2 or 3 dives that weekend for myself for fun (longer, deeper, etc.)

Either way everytime I'm in the water weather I'm diving with folks better than me tryign to learn from them or Dive Mastering for an instructor I'm working on the propulsion techniques, bouyancy,e tc.

when i'm out of the water I tend to write down a lot of math equations and come up with puzzles to solve myself.

edit: removed content

edit added: My personal philosophy is not to collect cards, even this post stems more from the frustration I see where there are great technical divers and people who are great at teaching leadership, but it seems that the two groups diverge instead of working together to form some sort of Cynergy

 

[brutus_scuba]

It seems to me most LDS's want to teach you a Dive Master course after you have AOW/Rescue and as many specialty courses as they can squeeze out of you. Why is the push towards DM/AI etc. instead of toward technical diving where at least the applications apply to diving and not to teaching????

OR do you see it different do you see a strong push to tech diving after a diver is a competant recreational diver???

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It seems to me most LDS's want to teach you a Dive Master course after you have AOW/Rescue and as many specialty courses as they can squeeze out of you. Why is the push towards DM/AI etc. instead of toward technical diving where at least the applications apply to diving and not to teaching????

OR do you see it different do you see a strong push to tech diving after a diver is a competant recreational diver???

Well, the simple answer to your question is money ... DM classes can be one of the most lucrative for dive shops, especially if there are multiple students taking it together.

Many (most?) dive shops are not set up to teach technical classes, and cannot afford either the requisite training or gear to teach them. And in many parts of the world, there simply isn't enough interest to make the investment worthwhile. But it's far easier to get recreational people hooked on DM as a "con ed" class.

FWIW - the first thing I ask anyone who wants DM training is "why do you want to be a DM". If it's primarily because they want better skills, I'll explain to them that DM is more about leadership than skills, and that there are additional costs and responsibilities that go well beyond the training. We'll then discuss alternative methods of getting the skills. In some cases, I'll refer them to a tech instructor.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BlueFrog]

Brutus, I agree that most LDS want to teach DM over Tec mostly because that is what they can easily teach. Too many LDS just don't have the advanced training, equipment or money to move beyond the DM class into serious Tec training. I'm also in Columbus, Ohio and I think its a good representation of the problem you describe. Out of 6 (one's closing) LDS in Columbus, how many can teach you even basic tec classes like deco procedures? By my count, 2 LDS and maybe 1 independent instructor. How many can even provide you with the gas necessary like 100% O2? I only know 1 LDS in Columbus where I can get 100% O2 or Helium for my own Tec diving. This is to show that they all can teach DM but only 1 or 2 are even capable of teaching Tec. My guess is it's different for States like FL, CA, TX that have a larger serious scuba population but around here.......

To answer your question, in my personal opinion, I think we have too many "hobby LDS" that lack commitment to the education and science of scuba diving and focus on easy "classes for the masses" as my old DM instructor would say.

 

[brutus_scuba]

Brutus, I agree that most LDS want to teach DM over Tec mostly because that is what they can easily teach. Too many LDS just don't have the advanced training, equipment or money to move beyond the DM class into serious Tec training. I'm also in Columbus, Ohio and I think its a good representation of the problem you describe. Out of 6 (one's closing) LDS in Columbus, how many can teach you even basic tec classes like deco procedures? By my count, 2 LDS and maybe 1 independent instructor. How many can even provide you with the gas necessary like 100% O2? I only know 1 LDS in Columbus where I can get 100% O2 or Helium for my own Tec diving. This is to show that they all can teach DM but only 1 or 2 are even capable of teaching Tec. My guess is it's different for States like FL, CA, TX that have a larger serious scuba population but around here.......

To answer your question, in my personal opinion, I think we have too many "hobby LDS" that lack commitment to the education and science of scuba diving and focus on easy "classes for the masses" as my old DM instructor would say.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few independent instructors that will teach the tech diving in Columbus, they've all had loose affiliations with dive shops at one point or another.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We're fortunate where I live ... there's a pool of quality tech instructors to choose from.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

I think what's coming through, to some extent here, is that there ARE people who would like to know more about gas management and deco theory, and have better skills, and they're frustrated because the only places they see to do this are technical classes . . . and they don't want to do technical diving.

I started to say that I think there would be a market for a good, meaty, solid class to teach divers these kinds of things, but as I started to write it, I thought, "You idiot, you KNOW there's a market for it . . . " because Fundies is an extremely successful program. Successful, I suspect, beyond the intent or expectations of the makers. The problem with Fundies is that the equipment requirements put a lot of people off; a similar class, with predictable quality, that didn't have restrictive equipment requirements, I think would sell like hotcakes.

 

[BlueFrog]

Off the top of my head I can think of a few independent instructors that will teach the tech diving in Columbus, they've all had loose affiliations with dive shops at one point or another.

I agree with you 100% but that's the problem as I see it based on your original question. You have to go hunt down those independent instructors because they are the few who have dedicated themselves to learning the science of our sport. Your comment helps illustrate the original DM over Tec question. To get a "High level education" you have to find the few instructors who have the specialized skills we seek. If you want to collect a new DM card, just about any shop will do. That's why I believe they push their students to DM over Tec.

Go Bucks!