Continuing Your Scuba Education (long post)

[muddiver]

I think what's coming through, to some extent here, is that there ARE people who would like to know more about gas management and deco theory, and have better skills, and they're frustrated because the only places they see to do this are technical classes . . . and they don't want to do technical diving.

I started to say that I think there would be a market for a good, meaty, solid class to teach divers these kinds of things, but as I started to write it, I thought, "You idiot, you KNOW there's a market for it . . . " because Fundies is an extremely successful program. Successful, I suspect, beyond the intent or expectations of the makers. The problem with Fundies is that the equipment requirements put a lot of people off; a similar class, with predictable quality, that didn't have restrictive equipment requirements, I think would sell like hotcakes.

That's dead on, I would take DIR-F except that I'll be dammed if I am going to buy a back plate, more wings, a doubles manifold, etc. I don't dive overhead or confined spaces except on hardhat surface supplied. So, if someone modified the DIR-F program (or stole the information) and offered a course called, say "Advanced SCUBA Thechniques and Breathing Gases" one would make a lot of extra duckets.

Disclaimer: Even though I play a SCUBA Instructor on TV I do not teach SCUBA.

 

[flw]

I think what's coming through, to some extent here, is that there ARE people who would like to know more about gas management and deco theory, and have better skills, and they're frustrated because the only places they see to do this are technical classes . . . and they don't want to do technical diving.

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I think it depends on where you live and who you dive with which to alarge degree dictates the type of diving you end up doing. The club diving system ( scottish subaqua club in my case) covers all bases, but the emphasis is more on a slower progression with a lot of mentoring involved - there are courses to develop skills in deeper diving,with the emphasis on planning and management,but most develop the basic inwaterskills well before then.
You happened to go down the dir route,possibly as you're in Florida, I lived at the time in Shetland Islands,and one of the starfish enterprise team happened to work near me,so I learned the main part of my early deeper diving from him over months and years followed up with courses and a lot of time with John Thornton IN Orkney/Scapa - every time I dive off his boat, I still come away having learned something new 10 years later -hence the exceedingly non-dir rebreather route.
I didn't ever set out to to 'technical' diving,whatever that means, but had to develop the skills to explore the wrecks that were opening up to me.
My kids are now diving, and having taken Naomi ( age 17) to Scapa for the first time a few weeks back, she is now finding areas she wants to work on in order to extend her time inwater- she'll be mentored by friends first, then formally taught probably iantd adv nitrox and probably in Scapa (which cos I've moved is now 30 minutes by rib from the house)

 

[neil]

That's dead on, I would take DIR-F except that I'll be dammed if I am going to buy a back plate, more wings, a doubles manifold, etc. I don't dive overhead or confined spaces except on hardhat surface supplied. So, if someone modified the DIR-F program (or stole the information) and offered a course called, say "Advanced SCUBA Thechniques and Breathing Gases" one would make a lot of extra duckets.
.

None of that knowledge is proprietary or new. Many instructors here could teach you those skills and that knowledge without the gear requirement. I probably could, after a little review of my own. The only question for me is whether or not I need to submit an outline to an agency and give the course a name in order to meet liability concerns.

 

[Buoyant1]

It seems to me most LDS's want to teach you a Dive Master course after you have AOW/Rescue and as many specialty courses as they can squeeze out of you. Why is the push towards DM/AI etc. instead of toward technical diving where at least the applications apply to diving and not to teaching????

OR do you see it different do you see a strong push to tech diving after a diver is a competant recreational diver???

I think its because some shops DON'T teach tech courses!

I think some people go into DM because they like taking courses, and learning and it's a next step sort of thing after rescue and some specialties. I'm lucky that my LDS does tech courses as well.

I have no ambition to do DM at this point in time. I want to take specialties that interest me, and learn more by doing. My next step after a few specialties is to take is tech courses (advanced Nitrox etc.) I don't have a burning desire to do 150-200+ ft dives, but I'd like to learn deco diving for increasing bottom time. (20 minutes is not enough time to dive a good 100ft. deep wreck!) But, if I DO get the opportunity to do some deeper dives that are just over the published recreational depth (i.e. Oriskany) I'd like to know how to do it.

 

[TSandM]

Well, one of the things I posted about a while back was taking "diving lessons". I hooked up with a world-class instructor because I attended a seminar he gave, and went diving with him. He did several weekends of diving with me and my buddy (and eventually my husband, too) and the last weekend, told us to go get some helium, because we were finishing up a Rec Triox class that I didn't know we were taking.

I think there'd be a ton of value in taking "diving lessons" like we take riding lessons -- In other words, not taking a specific class, but going out on a semi-regular basis with an instructor to have skills critiqued or get instruction on specific things we want to learn, like shooting a bag, for example. But it's apparently an insurance issue; if you aren't in a recognized "class" that the instructor's agency approves, you are in a no-man's-land from a liability standpoint.

BTW, muddiver, you do have to have a BP/W for Fundies, but not doubles or even a canister light. The minimum requirements are long hose/bungied backup, BP/W, non-split fins, and wrist gauges.

 

[deco_martini]

That's dead on, I would take DIR-F except that I'll be dammed if I am going to buy a back plate, more wings, a doubles manifold, etc. I don't dive overhead or confined spaces except on hardhat surface supplied. So, if someone modified the DIR-F program (or stole the information) and offered a course called, say "Advanced SCUBA Thechniques and Breathing Gases" one would make a lot of extra duckets.

What advanced techniques do you think you are missing? I've looked through the GUE tech and cave diving books. Scuba isn't like kungfu where there some secret order of monks with a secret breathing technique.

Less classes, dive more.

 

[Teamcasa]

It is a normal human reaction to defend our course in life or in this case, diving. We all tend to believe and do not hesitate to say our style is best for all and tend to discount the choices other divers make. I’m no different so here goes.

For the most part, we chose a path that best suits our diving style. I have some but no great desire to cave dive or do dives that require long deco. Should I take the time and spend the money and effort to get full cave trained on the off chance I’ll find a cave that beckons me? I doubt it. My style and diving desires would encourage me to more advanced recreational dive trips and higher quality video camera gear. For someone else, it may be becoming a dive professional or commercial or rescue diver. It’s all groovy to me.

In diving, training is important, experience is required and proficiency is demanded.
Bottom line is to do what makes your heart go pitter-patter and enjoy the path along the way.

 

[brutus_scuba]

Well, one of the things I posted about a while back was taking "diving lessons". I hooked up with a world-class instructor because I attended a seminar he gave, and went diving with him. He did several weekends of diving with me and my buddy (and eventually my husband, too) and the last weekend, told us to go get some helium, because we were finishing up a Rec Triox class that I didn't know we were taking.

I think there'd be a ton of value in taking "diving lessons" like we take riding lessons -- In other words, not taking a specific class, but going out on a semi-regular basis with an instructor to have skills critiqued or get instruction on specific things we want to learn, like shooting a bag, for example. But it's apparently an insurance issue; if you aren't in a recognized "class" that the instructor's agency approves, you are in a no-man's-land from a liability standpoint.

Yes, this would be ideal. Of course there is a huge financial problems here for dive shops, standardization problems, and liability issues, after all isn't liability the reason that a dive shop won't rent me a dry suit, even though my last 40 or so logged dives are in a dry suit? Isn't liability the reason that I can't do a night dive unless I have a card that says night diver even though I probably have 60 logged night dives?

I have been lucky enough to have a good friend who is a scuba instructor for both rec and tech courses and just diving with him has taught me a lot he's been pushing me a little further each time we dive, safely of course, in order to teach me the material ahead of me in technical diving. We've spent nights at his house over coffee going through decompression tables, and gas theory and gas planning techniques for fun, I've been lucky to just learn the stuff as he reveals it to me in a one lesson at a time manner.

I almost feel like each diver should get a huge encyclopedia of information with log book pages right in and instructors could fill in those pages and initial as each knowledge segment has been covered and record dives in there as new skills are hashed out and then use that as a verification technique for diveshops.

 

[muddiver]

What advanced techniques do you think you are missing? I've looked through the GUE tech and cave diving books. Scuba isn't like kungfu where there some secret order of monks with a secret breathing technique.

Less classes, dive more.

I agree, but there is always things like gas management ( use the thirds rule which is probably old fasioned) or mixing of gases and switching gases depending on depth. Those are not basic commercial diving or PADI knowledge areas. As a Master Diver (NAUI) / Divemaster (PADI) I have never been formally introduced to any of that and I don't think using exotic breathing mixtures is something one can teach one's self out of a book.

 

[Buoyant1]

Yes, this would be ideal. Of course there is a huge financial problems here for dive shops, standardization problems, and liability issues, after all isn't liability the reason that a dive shop won't rent me a dry suit, even though my last 40 or so logged dives are in a dry suit? Isn't liability the reason that I can't do a night dive unless I have a card that says night diver even though I probably have 60 logged night dives?

I have been lucky enough to have a good friend who is a scuba instructor for both rec and tech courses and just diving with him has taught me a lot he's been pushing me a little further each time we dive, safely of course, in order to teach me the material ahead of me in technical diving. We've spent nights at his house over coffee going through decompression tables, and gas theory and gas planning techniques for fun, I've been lucky to just learn the stuff as he reveals it to me in a one lesson at a time manner.

I almost feel like each diver should get a huge encyclopedia of information with log book pages right in and instructors could fill in those pages and initial as each knowledge segment has been covered and record dives in there as new skills are hashed out and then use that as a verification technique for diveshops.

I guess the big picture is you get out of it what you WANT to get out of it. If you want to dive the Doria, you do it, and takes steps to do it, if you want to teach, you go the DM route...If you just want to learn, you take what ever you can take.

Locally, I dive with a few DM's, a couple instructors, and some DM candidates, and I've learned a bunch from all of them. The other place I like to dive (Florida Keys) I try to find people that are good at wha tthey do, and learn from them. I f I find an op that 's sort of going through the motions, then I only dive with them once...if they can teach me something, I'm back with them the next time I'm down, and reccomending them to whoever will listen!

The instructors in my LDS know I'm not headed for DM, but they know that I'm headed for some tech courses, so they steer me in the right direction as far as gear. (I wanted a pony, and I was advised to get a 40cf rather than the 30cf (or smaller) because Advanced Nitrox, and some of the tech courses require that size (and it was only $10.00 more than the 30)

I just got the BP/W because I tried one and liked it! (not because of the peer pressure) I'm guessing mid-summer I'll probably go to a long hose (only because the task loading of the new BC, the pony etc. would be too much for THAT drastic a change.)