Continuing Ed. or just paying to dive..

[MXGratefulDiver]

Twiddles ... your views (which I don't consider very well informed) notwithstanding, I'd like to point out that this level of discourse ...

Your ego has no bounds does it?

Go soak your head.

... is a violation of the Terms of Service you agreed to when you signed up to participate on this board.

Perhaps you need to read them again ... http://www.scubaboard.com/faq.php?faq=tos_items#faq_scubaboard_tos

There's a news group called alt.rec.scuba that you might be interested in ... I'm certain the people there would be far more receptive to your views and writing style ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

Twiddles, you'll find there are a GREAT many people on this board who agree that OW training is insufficient and that when people are taught to dive, they should be taught more, and to higher standards. And everybody agrees that such a class would be time-consuming and expensive, and not very many people would take it.

That’s often the case. As you observed a while back, you’d do things differently if you knew then, what you know now. But my experience flies in the face of this. I grant that university students, factulty and staff are not the “general public,” especially in the ways in which they are programmed to schedule their time, but we typically had 100 or more applicants for 20 class slots. That’s with full knowledge that they needed to buy a very specific full set of gear and materials (one to two thousand dollars) as well as pay (in some cases) for 4 credits. Even today, when I just teach privates I have a waiting list for folks who want training. Now that list is 300 people long, which is the minimum number of new students per year that I’m told a shop has to teach in order to generate the critical mass of equipment sales to keep going.

As much as we like to damn PADI, it exists in the form it does for a reason: People think they want to learn to dive, but don't want to spend much time or much money to do so. PADI has developed a system to deliver diving education in a palatable form, in chunks people are willing to pay for, and it's pretty clear that, if the instructors are both educated and motivated, the education can be decent. If they aren't either, it won't be.

WARNING: If you are want to confuse history with agency "bashing" please stop reading here.

This is not a find a need and fill it kind of situation. PADI started out as an organization with standards that were actually higher than most of the others. It evolved into the “training arm” of U.S. Divers (John Cronin effective ran both companies) and the marketers of the manufacturing and distribution world took over. The current form was one that they created, not based on sound pedagogy but on the sole basis of how best to carve out a market share. The primary tactic being to reduce “barriers” to learning to dive such as knowing how to swim, and to eliminate “barriers” to equipment purchase (certification) such as knowing how to dive (well ... maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but it's too good a turn of phrase to pass). The was all quite premeditated, for example courses in the PADI scheme were specifically named to cross-compare one rank up in other agency’s training schemes thus putting the PADI courses at a competitive advantage while depauperizing the content when compared to the other agencies. Put the public didn't understand what was being done. Wasn't it P.T.Barnam who said, “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”? Here’s proof perfect.

 

[Ann Marie]

I wish you the best in your diving future.

 

[billeelou]

Diver cost to date:
My classes 0W $425, A0W $125.00, Altitude $125.00 Gear to do what I have been taught $2000 = $2675.00 for a total of 12 dives (not including CERT cards...)

Wifes Classes and gear same

Sons classes same x (2) gear basics $275.00 fins, mask, yada yada

Total to teach a family of four to dive and equip two of them with mid to low range gear $7000 Dollars yea um okay.....

.

Aesop once said, " a fool and his money are soon seperated"....:shakehead

OW Class bought at a charity fundraiser $125 (for 2) Knighthawk w/ air2 bought used $185.00,Tusa Fusion Used $125, Scubapro Regulators and Gauges 95.00 (ebay). Sherwood Magnum 2 with Gauges $110.00 Ebay, Dive shop check out and annuals on regs $200.00, Masks fins, snorkle etc. $200 Leisure Pro, first 10 dives at $40-65 each
$500...or $1,000 total for 2....for a grand total of $2,040 ............being a Scuba diver=PRICELESS!!!!

I guess I could calculate in the hotel rooms, travel by boat and plane, but I would have those costs whether I dove or not....

 

[Thalassamania]

I wish you the best in your diving future.

You can cut the sarcasm. If you have a revisionist history that you want to post, go right ahead. We're all interested.

 

[Divedoggie]

Its quite apparent that people don't like you...Thus Ann Marie's sarcasm.

You wrote a novel on your bio to impress yourself, or some poor sucker.
You've only been a member for 11 months and you already have almost 3000 posts. Do you actually DO anything in your life besides sit at the computer and give unwanted advise from a grumpy old man? Thats a rhetorical question, because I'm sure no one really cares what the answer is.

Its sad that the exclusive boys club of diving back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's has become a sport that almost anyone can do for recreation. It disturbs you to no end, so you attack the certifying agencies.

If the thread didn't open an opportunity to deride an agency, then you try to demean an individual for having less experience, not being properly trained, not going to the Thalassamania school of diving. Why don't you start that school and see who shows up? You can teach the elitist frog kick, the snob trim system, the condescending descent.

Rip me back Yoda!

 

[Thalassamania]

Its quite apparent that people don't like you...Thus Ann Marie's sarcasm.

You wrote a novel on your bio to impress yourself, or some poor sucker.
You've only been a member for 11 months and you already have almost 3000 posts. Do you actually DO anything in your life besides sit at the computer and give unwanted advise from a grumpy old man? Thats a rhetorical question, because I'm sure no one really cares what the answer is.

Its sad that the exclusive boys club of diving back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's has become a sport that almost anyone can do for recreation. It disturbs you to no end, so you attack the certifying agencies.

If the thread didn't open an opportunity to deride an agency, then you try to demean an individual for having less experience, not being properly trained, not going to the Thalassamania school of diving. Why don't you start that school and see who shows up? You can teach the elitist frog kick, the snob trim system, the condescending descent.

Rip me back Yoda!

You really think that your accomplishments warrant any more effort than a single line and a ddition to the ignore file? What an ego you have with a couple of hundred dives under your belt.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

OK you two ... tape measures at 20 paces ... :mooner:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

Hardly worth the trouble at that short a range, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Wow!

From everything I can tell, the John Cronin connection and the unholly aliance of aqualung and PADI is exactly how the current dive industry model came about. The result is the free handing out of dive certifications to sell equipment like a dope dealer handing out free joints at the local grade school. Of course the certifications themselves we made a requirement insuring their sale as well making both companies very profitable while dive shops exist often as hobby businesses...a labor of love with little financial benefit. In structors are beach bums or professionals from other fields that donate their time on the weekend to the local starving dive shop owner.

I suppose that one could take information like that and use it for a reson to dislike Thal or use it to better plot their diving future. P.T. Barnum did say "There's a sucker born every minute"