Continuing Ed. or just paying to dive..

[Twiddles]

To clarify Im not talking about your own gear, strange that you would think I should pay for that....

I dont know abou the insurance thing and if you pay for it, I would wonder about the LDS you work for. If your talking about insurance for yourself I would again ask you why you think I should pay for something that protects you not me.

I dont want to learn any more about he scuba business as I am not trying to make it my profession. I am only trying to understand why it operates the way it does and the reasons you and others have given me lead me to believe my assumptions are for the most part correct.

Quote: To be honest, I do not even teach OW classes anymore, because in order for me to break even I'd have to charge you more for the class than you'd be willing to pay. End Quote ..... Well I guess you sorta prove my point dont you?

A note on clarification because of the context I have seen more than one of you use. I am posting about what I have experienced and what I know of the agency that "governed" my instruction. I was taught as was my family and I believe the majority of students, in a group class, not by private instruction. If you are a private instructor and teach diffrently than I have experienced great but, your not comparing apples to apples your comparing what you do as compared with what group instructors do. Which from what I can see is very diffrent. Obviously you also incur much greater cost and liability. I would also be willing to bet you do not follow the letter of the law so to speak with regards to the seperation of "specialty" courses.

 

[Ann Marie]

Am I the only person posting who sees that by the costs, divisions, requirements, certifications etc. the sole purpose of some Agencies/LDS/Instructors appears to be to reduce the number of instructors, increase the cost to students, limit knowledge available (well at least until you take that "specialty")? What possible purpose could it serve the student to only teach OW and not include the requirements of AOW?

If your a private instructor and have your own insurance (highly unlikely) and YOU buy specialty gear strictly for the benefit of your students, you have a right to cover your costs by all means. How much you charge me really isn't going to impress me with you as an instructor (sorry). I would guess by my own experience and all the group classes from Lds everywhere in Monterey that you dont pay insurance and the LDS covers most of the gear (for a fee of course).

Twiddles, I noticed that you are an electrician. I want to replace my dinning room chandalier. Now, once your here I want my family room light switched out and I have this light bulb in my living room that is burned out and happens to be on a 22ft ceiling, oh also could you add a new outside light to my side yard.... are you going to charge me for just the service fee for the dinning room chandalier or would you like payment for all of your work?

I know people that don't want to dive in the dark..EVER...should I force them to do it to become certified to dive at all. I have a student that doesn't want to deep dive. Should he not be certified at all because he doesn't want to go deep??

BTW, I work at an LDS, but have to supply all of my own educational materials, gear, and I purchase my own insurance (even though the LDS has me on their policy). I had to buy my own oxygen kit, my own manniqunes for teaching CPR...everything I use in a class is MINE and I teach for a large, chain sporting good store! Do you know what I asked for and got for my birthday last year? A PROJECTOR!!! I really wanted something else but I got the projector to make my lectures even better, FOR MY STUDENTS!

I take being an instructor very seriously and continually strive to be the best that I can. I can offer to teach you everything that I know but I'll need you to sign up for a class that will last 6 months (at least), you'll be diving every weekend and have classes during the week, and it will cost you $15,000. Or, you can take just the basic class, research on your own, and make your own mistakes. Or, you can take just the classes that interest you on smaller time frames and for a smaller costs. Your choice. Stop whinning; you finished your open water now you don't have to pay another dime to any SCUBA Instructor!

You need to talk to my golf pro.... ask him why during one session we only work on my driving, next time we might work on my chipping, and heaven forbid(!) the next lesson is going to be working on my putting! Yikes, why does't he teach me everything in one session!?!?!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have been diving over 30 years, way before most of these speciality certs existed, AOW, Rescue and a couple of others were about it. Boat, drift, nav etc.... were all part of the basic OW I took in Oki, No instructor pushed Advanced unless you wanted to explore diving past the sport limits of the time, Where I have an issue is when the rules change, I would have a hard time with someone limiting me to lets say 80' because I have only a OW, that's a button I wouldn't push, my basic OW check out dive took us to the sport limit with 2 other rep dives around 100' plus a midnight dive too boot. We did nav, swift current, night, emergency ascent ditch drills from 40 & 65', it was an intensive all encompassing course. I have no issue with Instructors offering speciality certs, it may work for some, where I would draw the line is if the rules change and people start mandating requirements. With almost 500 dives all over the world, the best lesson learned came from other more experinced divers, dm's and operators at no cost other than the dive trip itself..... Join a club, the wealth of knowledge there is usually priceless. Have Fun, Dive and Keep it simple...... :11:

FWIW - boat operators who require AOW for deep dives typically include "or equivalent experience" in that mandate. I've known several people who never got certified past OW who have dived all over the world without problems.

I suspect that most operators who see a C-card from 30 years ago are only going to be interested in what diving you've done since then. With 500 dives, I can't see any of them having an issue.

And BTW - some of the most important lessons I've learned about diving did not come from a class. Mentors are still the backbone of a diver's education ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pir8]

Well I don't own my own manequens yet but I do have my laptop & projector as well as portable whiteboard.

 

[Divedoggie]

Ann Marie.....Well said! Bravo!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To clarify Im not talking about your own gear, strange that you would think I should pay for that....

How so? As an electrician, don't your rates factor in the cost of your tools? Or do you consider those an out-of-pocket expense that you pay for personally?

I dont know abou the insurance thing and if you pay for it, I would wonder about the LDS you work for. If your talking about insurance for yourself I would again ask you why you think I should pay for something that protects you not me.

As an electrician do you not have liability insurance? Is the cost of that insurance factored into the cost of your services? And if it is, why do you think your customers should pay for something that protects you not them?

I dont want to learn any more about he scuba business as I am not trying to make it my profession. I am only trying to understand why it operates the way it does and the reasons you and others have given me lead me to believe my assumptions are for the most part correct.

Quite frankly it doesn't sound to me like you're attempting to understand anything at all ... you seem more intent in telling us how it is and why it's wrong.

Quote: To be honest, I do not even teach OW classes anymore, because in order for me to break even I'd have to charge you more for the class than you'd be willing to pay. End Quote ..... Well I guess you sorta prove my point dont you?

How so?

A note on clarification because of the context I have seen more than one of you use. I am posting about what I have experienced and what I know of the agency that "governed" my instruction. I was taught as was my family and I believe the majority of students, in a group class, not by private instruction. If you are a private instructor and teach diffrently than I have experienced great but, your not comparing apples to apples your comparing what you do as compared with what group instructors do. Which from what I can see is very diffrent. Obviously you also incur much greater cost and liability. I would also be willing to bet you do not follow the letter of the law so to speak with regards to the seperation of "specialty" courses.

There are more than just private instructors and group instructors ... there are instructors who work independent of dive shops (that teach both groups and privately) ... there are instructors who teach through shops, but are not affiliated with the shop ... there are instructors who own the shop ... there are instructors who teach for universities, swim clubs, the YMCA, and a variety of other organizations. None of them operate their business any differently than you operate yours ... they provide a service for a fee. The costs associated with doing business get factored into that fee.

When someone calls an electrician they may not be happy with the quality of service provided by that electrician ... and so it is incumbant upon them to find another electrician who can provide that service at the level and price that makes them happy. Same goes for dive instruction. Sounds to me like you might not have been happy with the level of instruction you got for the price you paid ... so shop around.

Understanding the "model" might require you to get more than one or two data points with respect to why instructors operate they way they do, however.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ann Marie]

Well I don't own my own manequens yet but I do have my laptop & projector as well as portable whiteboard.

I don't have a portable whiteboard, the LDS does supply that for me...

 

[pir8]

I got it cause I will take my show on the road if need be. I'm not always in the shop.

 

[Ann Marie]

I got it cause I will take my show on the road if need be. I'm not always in the shop.

I've thought about getting a portable screen but a portable whiteboard would probably be better. That way it could perform double duty if need be. Thanks!!

(Show on the road....like a traveling circus.... )

 

[wet-one]

Don't waste you r time with that crap unless you want to be an instructor for a living.Just dive as much as possible in as many diffrerent environments as possible. I made it through padi dive master because at that time I wanted to be an instructor. Anyway, most of my classmates were clowns and I wouldn't even want them as a buddy on a simple dive. Padi will pass just about anyone who pays. One guy failed two swim tests, then he coudn't even finish the last one and now hes a divemaster.. save your money for good gear and dive trips.