Console vs Wrist?

[RonP]

Air integration is far from being a necessity. However that goes for most gadgets in scuba diving nowadays. If you like AI computer then by one. Who cares what others thinnk about it? It's your money and spend it as you see fit. I like AI computer. I dive enough now to know what my SAC and RMV are, and can figure on the fly how much gas time I have left, but guess what? I still like AI function on my computers and the next one that I buy will be an AI computer.


Try to look at the UEMIS computer. Good display size, bright colors, wrist mounted and AI capable. Also easy to use. Instead of four buttons, they have three sliding levers.

Thanks for your feedback. I will try to see if I can find a Uemis here locally to take a look at it.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

If I go with a wrist device I really want the compass and AI included. Are there any wrist computers that are in that price range that have both and are not conventional in Algorithim?

@RonP: No, I don't believe that any wrist computers in the $200-$400 price range have both wireless AI and a compass. I don't understand what you mean by a "not conventional" algorithm.

I do see that the more experienced divers here and elsewhere many just wear wrist computers that are not AI and they are fine because they know how much air they use through experience. But I'm new to all this so I'm not familiar with how much air I intake yet to just have a seperate air gauge if it's not AI.

From what I've seen, the majority of new, inexperienced divers have a non-AI computer (or depth gauge + timing device) and a separate air gauge. That's how I learned in basic OW class. It was not difficult at all to track NDLs and air supply on two different devices. It just took a little practice. AI computers are nice, but they should really be considered an unnecessary convenience.

I like the idea of the computer calculating everything for me (Air use, ART, no deco etc) since I'm just learning and at various times tend to use more air than others.

New divers tend to use a lot of air. That's perfectly OK. Be aware of it and learn how to plan for it. I'd take DevonDiver's suggestions to heart. He's given you good advice.

 

[RonP]

I don't know if anyone has put this thought in your head yet but an AI computer will monitor your tank pressure that the sensor is connected to only. If you get involved with Tech diving than you will be switching between tanks and different mixes throughout the dive making an AI computer impractical. If I had the money I would get it for the "poops and giggles" of it all but when I get to the tech diving capabilities some time far off in the future I would end up using Brass and Glass SPG's making that investment unnecessary. If you end up diving with a pony tank than you would have a gauge on that too unless your watch had the Buddy Monitoring feature in which you could possibly buy a second wireless sensor for it... Another thing to consider is the reliability. Pressure sensors fail and batteries wear out. A transmitter is one more failure point that could create complications on a dive and could be a fairly abrupt end to a dive vacation if it happened on a live-aboard. There's a better chance that an extra Brass and Glass would be kicking around on a boat than a replacement set of batteries or a new sensor to match your model of computer. I'm not saying that it will fail but having used electronic pressure gauges in refrigeration I know that it does happen. I would also assume (and this really is only an assumption) that the wireless signal would be more of a drain, albeit minimal, on the batteries making the user replaceable feature more important to me.

In short, I think the reason the more experienced are saying that it's not necessary to have AI is because not only can they guess their gas consumption better but more important because it is impractical for the multi tank dives that they do and the simple reliability of a Brass & Glass. If your plans only include single tank dives than it's a luxury that you may decide you want. I got to admit, I think it would be kinda fun to see my gas use on the computer screen with the rest of my dive profile.

(Maybe someone with Tech diving experience would be willing to confirm my concerns with the AI computers and multi tank use...)

I was looking at the OC1 and see that is says it "Switch between 3 independent transmitters, with up to 3 nitrox mixes to 100% O2".

Does that mean it can monitor 3 gas or is that something different from what you mentioned above on different mixes? further says "Set FO2 Value (%) Gas 1 AIR 21-50% , Set FO2 Value (%) Gas 2 OFF 21-100% , Set FO2 Value (%) Gas 3 OFF 21-100% )..not sure what that all means.
also says it allows for norm, gauge and free.

Totally get what you're saying with the batteries and failure points. I would def only dive with a wrist ai wearing a backup but very small manual "brass and glass" spg conected to a hp miflex hose tucked away someplace. a little redundancy when it comes to an ai is good in my novice state. great point about user replaceable batteries...OC1 does say user replaceable battery but also says recommded pressure check with dealer or factory so questionable and I need to verify.

yeah I'm so far away from multi tank dives right now...i need some serious diving still to even think of technical diving but great points and thanks for getting me to think about it. I'm not even sure what techinical diving is other than multi-gas/tank, more than 130 feet and cave/wreck diving....think i'm a good 3+ years away if at all.

 

[RonP]

If the diver is using multiple tanks, then they will also be using multiple gasses of different composition (deco nitrox, trimix etc). Multi-gas is more of an issue than a multi-tank/multi-sensor function.

Personally, I don't know any OC tech divers who use AI computer for multi-gas dives.

However, it's not really an issue for the OP now. By the time the OP is ready for tech training...and requires a multi-tank, multi-gas AI computer then it is quite possible that the technology available will have evolved considerably.



What do you mean 'not conventional in algorithim'?



I don't want to sound pendantic, but we learnt through experience because we didn't rely on AI computers to do run our dives for us. I do think that you might be depriving yourself of this future experience building if you opt for an AI computer, but don't back that up with manual brain-powered dive control.



It is hugely beneficial to deal with your 'gas management' at the pre-dive planning stage. If you have planned your gas requirements, then a basic SPG is all you need to track those. Your intended use of AI and computer features is akin to a scuba diving 'auto-pilot', where you can abdicate all responsibility for gas management and NDL to your computer.

Abdicating responsibility for your dives - whether to another individual or to a computer, is not the best long-term skill development strategy.



Lets be clear between want and need. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting an AI computer with all those functions. Some of the contributors on this thread have clearly identified that you don't need that. I agree with them. But then, we all buy stuff that we want...that's the fun of it

You could cut the compass from your list of specifications. Get a regular compass, remove the wrist straps, attach it to a bolt clip..store it in your BCD pocket. Same function (actually easier to use) at a fraction of the cost.

You could disregard the AI function and use a naked brass SPG. Spend a few evenings getting familiar with the wealth of information about 'gas management' available here on SB. Practice planning and calculating your gas requirements and consumption. When you go diving, make a point of developing good instinctive skills, especially concerning your overall dive awareness (buddy, depth, time, NDL and gas).

My advice is that, regardless of which option you take, you should endeavor to not abdicate responsibility for your diving to the computer. Pre-plan your gas management. There are many threads here on SB that provide knowledge on how to do that... search for 'Rock Bottom Gas Management', 'SAC' and 'RMV'.

If you don't do that, then your reliance on the computer will surely have a detrimental effect on your skill development...especially those skills which pertain to technical diving (which you may consider in the future).

Thank you for your feedback. What does OP mean? I meant to say "conservative" not "conventional" sorry about that.

I get what you are saying and very much agree with you that I can not trust a computer and need to develop skills so I can judge and check against the information I am getting from the computer. I should be able to know if the computer is reading accurately or not If I get hone those skill sets.

I will take your advise and get familiar with good diving principals by researching within this site and practicing. thanks again.

 

[fnfalman]

I was looking at the OC1 and see that is says it "Switch between 3 independent transmitters, with up to 3 nitrox mixes to 100% O2".

Does that mean it can monitor 3 gas or is that something different from what you mentioned above on different mixes? further says "Set FO2 Value (%) Gas 1 AIR 21-50% , Set FO2 Value (%) Gas 2 OFF 21-100% , Set FO2 Value (%) Gas 3 OFF 21-100% )..not sure what that all means.
also says it allows for norm, gauge and free.

Yes, it means that it can monitor up to three gases in the same dive, and in a couple of different scenarios:

1. You only have the 1-transmitter that came with the unit and don't want to shell out more money for additional transmitters. So you equip your two other tanks with SPGs. The computer will monitor the tank with the 1-transmitter mounted (NDL, air consumption, air pressure, everything), and when you switch the gas mixes for the other two tanks, it will continue to monitor your dive time but it won't be able to monitor gas consumption rate and tank pressure.

2. You buy two more transmitters for your other two tanks. When you switch gases, the computer will continue doing everything for you.

Now, before you get all excited and start thinking about carrying two or three bottles of mixed gases with you, don't. Multiple gases usage in one dive usually means decompression diving. You don't need to be messing around with decompression diving until you learn how to do it. Don't blindly trust the computer.

Totally get what you're saying with the batteries and failure points. I would def only dive with a wrist ai wearing a backup but very small manual "brass and glass" spg conected to a hp miflex hose tucked away someplace. a little redundancy when it comes to an ai is good in my novice state. great point about user replaceable batteries...OC1 does say user replaceable battery but also says recommded pressure check with dealer or factory so questionable and I need to verify.

Batteries don't just die on you. Batteries came a long way since 1950s. The operator's manuals tell you how long your batteries are good for. If you were to keep all your equipment properly serviced and maintained, then batteries are a non-issue. If you want to attach an additional SPG to supplement your AI computer, then by all means but it's far from necessary. If the transmitter were to fail, you don't just run out of air. The air remaining in your tank is still there regardless of an additional SPG or not. You simply terminate your dive and make a proper ascension. THEN you can reequip your regulator with an SPG for the next dive. That's how I do it. I don't want to carry anything that isn't necessary for the dive.

Thank you for your feedback. What does OP mean? I meant to say "conservative" not "conventional" sorry about that.

"OP" means "Original Poster".

I get what you are saying and very much agree with you that I can not trust a computer and need to develop skills so I can judge and check against the information I am getting from the computer. I should be able to know if the computer is reading accurately or not If I get hone those skill sets.

Of course you can trust the dive computer. Otherwise why bother with it at all? However, like Ronald Reagan used to say, "trust but verify". Trust the computer, but use your brain for verification.

 

[FritzCat66]

FWIW, if you want air-integration functionality with your computer, and do photography with strobes, then your only real option is a console unless you don't mind your wireless transmitters being constantly taken momentarily offline by the strobes firing.

I fit into that category, so I use a hosed-AI console for my primary computer (I also like the large easier-to-read digits more often present on consoles), but I also have a fairly inexpensive dive watch with a depth gauge on my wrist for some redundancy, and also to use when I need just a quick depth reading - especially handy when ascending a line and all I really need is depth & time info (presuming I have plenty of gas before I start the ascent of course).

So, there's at least one argument for a console/wrist combo.

 

[RonP]

I have 2 small slave strobes along with the built in strobe on my camera outfit.
I use 2 Oceanic AI computers. An Atom 2.0 and a VT Pro althought I do see a loss of sync for a few moments on some dives it isn't long enough to effect the safety or reliability of the computers. I also don't find this to be attributible to the firing of the strobes since I take hundreds of times more pictures than I have sync lapses and have had lapses without the camera outfit.
I do agree that learning to properly use tables and manage gas are skills that should not be taken lightly in it's value.
Once those skills and knowledge are understood computers can be used to safely extend dive times for those that are interested in doing so.

OC1 manual says it takes 4 seconds for link to be restored if a strobe inturrupts...does that sound about right?

 

[FritzCat66]

I should have added... If you don't want air-integration with your computer, then that means an SPG, and guess what - right there is a mini-console with all the disadvantages consoles have (need a hand to use it, gotta clip it off or it hangs, etc.). So, for photogs with strobes, hosed AI console (or double console with non-AI comp and SPG) is a good choice unless you don't mind your wireless getting kicked off every now and again for a few seconds.

Or until industry fixes that technical problem with wireless or comes out with an attached-hose AI wrist unit. No technical reason they couldn't. Sure it's a bit of a hassle but anyone who has used a canister light with a Goodman handle knows it's quite possible and not that much hassle to dive with a cord coming off your wrist.

Until then, I'm sticking with my hose-attached AI comp and el-cheapo wristwatch/depth gauge combo (I actually also have a plain SPG attached as well for some basic redundancy in case of computer failure underwater, since like many photogs I often end up solo, but it's tucked away and not normally used).

 

[Dhboner]

I just switched to wrist mount a few dives ago and agree it is the way to go. The only problem is remembering to put it on my wrist before a dive...senility is a terrible thing, thank God for attentive buddies!

 

[robbcayman]

I appreciate all the responses. I got lucky and found a steal for an aeris atmos ai computer. For the price I bought it at, I was willing to not worry about the wrist style. However, down the road I'm going to buy a cheap watch style as a back-up.