Considering BP/W switch and need input

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GIVE ME BACK MY THREAD I TELL YOU! :no:

I asked for feedback on considerations for BP/W selection based on my desire to 1) streamline my gear to eliminate bulk created by unused pockets and 2) to have a less bulky set up for travel. I do not want or need any help with my current set up and provided the details only to help answer the question of which plate material and what size wing would be suitable.

No tangential rants needed!

Lulubelle,

If you're looking for travel, consider this package. You can always add an AL or Steel plate if desired.

Thanks for the on topic post!

Hi L. The entire thread went all Scubaboard. My phone got trashed, but I'll pm ya.It ain't rocket science.

Ya THINK? No wonder I take two year breaks from posting here. :rofl3:
 
GIVE ME BACK MY THREAD I TELL YOU! :no:

I asked for feedback on considerations for BP/W selection based on my desire to 1) streamline my gear to eliminate bulk created by unused pockets and 2) to have a less bulky set up for travel. I do not want or need any help with my current set up and provided the details only to help answer the question of which plate material and what size wing would be suitable.

No tangential rants needed!



Thanks for the on topic post!



Ya THINK? No wonder I take two year breaks from posting here. :rofl3:

I'd be more than happy to answer your question, but......

The selection of plate material, i.e. either SS or lightweight is based on required ballast. That makes determining required ballast germane to your original request.

Sadly there continues to be too many that advocate over weighted divers.

Tobin
 


A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Discussion about how much weight will be needed based on the type of rig is necessary for this discussion, but please keep the discussion about weighting practices in general and personal arguments out of this thread, and keep to the topic at hand.
 
I'd be more than happy to answer your question, but......

The selection of plate material, i.e. either SS or lightweight is based on required ballast. That makes determining required ballast germane to your original request.

Tobin

Yes, it is absolutely germane, which is why I stated what my configuration and weight requirements were in the opening post. Based on this, the question of what type of material I would need for a plate was answered in the first few posts.

I appreciate all of the posts regarding issues to think about when selecting plates, harnesses, and wings.
 
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I am toying with the idea of switching over to a BP/W for two reasons: 1) streamlining here at home in NC, I dive a HP steel 100 and require no weight with a singles rig leaving extra bulk in the pockets which is not useful and 2) to have a less bulky set up for travel.

1. Steel or Aluminum plate? Seems like Al would be the answer in the first scenario, steel in the second.
2. What sort of lift do I need if diving a singles rig? I don't really use my BC now.
3. Of course it all changes if I decide to do AN/deco training. I am pretty iffy about my plans on that front.
4. Types and brands of harnesses and wings? I'm clear as mud what the differences are despite reading a lot of threads on the subject.

Okay, you want short and to the point?
1. AL plate, simple webbing harness, oxycheq mach V (30 lbs) or dive rite travel EXP or halcyon singles wing (I forget what it's called)
OR
2. DSS kydex plate with either torus or LCD wing, 20 lbs is probably plenty of lift.


There you go!

I did not read the multi page thread, so I'm probably only repeating what someone else has said. One thing, though, when you start to complain about the responses to your thread on scubaboard, you might remember how much you're paying for these comments...
 
Okay, you want short and to the point?
1. AL plate, simple webbing harness, oxycheq mach V (30 lbs) or dive rite travel EXP or halcyon singles wing (I forget what it's called)
OR
2. DSS kydex plate with either torus or LCD wing, 20 lbs is probably plenty of lift.


There you go!

I did not read the multi page thread, so I'm probably only repeating what someone else has said. One thing, though, when you start to complain about the responses to your thread on scubaboard, you might remember how much you're paying for these comments...

Thank you for your input!

I wasn't complaining about the digression, I was entertained and was demanding the return of my thread in jest, but wanted as much input as possible about the range of opinions for selection of plates, wings, and harnesses.

Can I ask a dumb ish question? I don't know much about Kydex except for that it is pricey. Are you recommending a wing with less lift because the Kydex plate is lighter than Aluminum?
 
Can I ask a dumb ish question? I don't know much about Kydex except for that it is pricey. Are you recommending a wing with less lift because the Kydex plate is lighter than Aluminum?

Not a dumb-ish question at all. It's hard to know how much lift you will need; I suspect 20 lbs or less would sufficient based on what you've said, but it's only a guess. Most of the small single tank wings commonly available seem to be in the 30 lb range, and that's the reason I recommended that for the oxycheq. They do make a 17 lb wing which is really small, but when you hold the 30 lb next to it, there's not much difference. DSS makes a very nice 20 lb horseshoe wing called the LCD.

If you want to figure out exactly how much lift you need, you just need to figure out how negative your rig is without you in it, and you need to know the weight of your gas and the buoyancy of your suit. You need enough lift to A) float the rig without you in it, and B) compensate for the weight of the gas and wetsuit compression. That's it...and it's often less than you'd think. As an example, take your HP100, that's maybe 7lbs negative, add 5 for the regulator and other gear, that's 12. (This is with a neutral plate/wing/harness) So you need at least 12 lbs, say 15 to be on the safe side, to float the rig; that's without any lead on the harness. Any wing will do that. If your suit takes 15 lbs of lead to sink, and the gas weighs 7lbs, that's potentially 22lbs negative you could be at maximum depth with a full tank. So in that case you'd want at least 22 lbs lift, although its a little deceptive because probably your suit would not lose ALL its buoyancy at recreational depths, and you won't have a completely full tank by the time you got to real depth.

Then there's the issue of how wing companies measure and 'rate' their wings for lift capacity. Once the wing is on a tank, especially a donut wing, parts of it will not inflate fully, so possibly there's less available lift than the manufacturer claims if they measure it while the wing is fully inflated free-standing. There's no 'legal' standard for manufacturers' claims to accuracy in lift rating. You can measure it yourself easily by setting it up on a tank, filling it with water to capacity, dumping the water into a bucket, and calculating by volume or weight.

Then there's the issue of how high you would like to be able to float in the water while you're on the surface. There's no need to have your shoulders out of the water, but some people like it and if you want that, you need a slightly bigger wing. That's because some of the wing will be out of the water and so will not be contributing lift. The problem with bigger-than-necessary wings is that they are usually a little harder to vent and in general don't feel as nice to dive with, IMO. So it's a trade off. Experimentation is the only true way to find out what will work best for you. You RARELY hear experienced divers complaining that their wings are too small though; quite the opposite.

I don't think that kydex is significantly different than AL in terms of buoyancy. I think they're both more-or-less neutral. DSS uses kydex for other reasons; I think Tobin just prefers it; one reason is that AL definitely does interact with sea water and slowly corrodes. While that's true, remember that most other manufacturers have been successfully producing AL plates for years, and they make scuba tanks and boats out of the stuff.

The DSS rigs are integrated systems in which the plate and wing fasten together in an ingenious way which allows for almost instant removal of the wing; a nice touch for cleaning, storage, and travel. That's why IMO its better to buy DSS as a complete rig. Despite Tobin's rather blunt approach to posting on this forum, he has a stellar reputation for customer service that I am certain is entirely deserved.

The oxycheq wings are extremely well made and line up fine with either oxycheq or dive rite plates. Sometimes caveadventurers.com has excellent deals on those set ups. The newer style dive rite travel EXP also looks good to me, and I've always had a good experience with dive rite as a company. Not everyone else has.

Good luck, hope this helps you.
 
Thanks to to everyone, halocline, TS and M, EFF, Tobin, and everyone else for the very detailed explanations of considerations in selecting a BP/W set up and your experiences with different materials, brands, and set ups. I remember when I was newly certified and contemplating these choices it was just too complex, so to a BC I went. And it has been a great BC and I'm a big Zeagle fan. But now that I have started modifying it, removing the trim pockets, adding new cam bands, putting a rigid D ring behind my right lower back, that tells me that maybe I AM ready to build what I need from the ground up. Many Thanks!

I am likely to start by trying out a few friends who have walked this walk before me and have a veritable menu of plates and wings that they bought before finding what worked best for them.
 
I didn't read all the thread so if this was said, excuse ME. I just wanted to throw this out there because I just when thru this with my wife. If your 5' 5" or less your going to want the shorter back plate. The standard one is 15.5" long and the shorter one is 13.5" long.
 
If your 5' 5" or less your going to want the shorter back plate. The standard one is 15.5" long and the shorter one is 13.5" long.

We did discuss this earlier in the thread (beginning with post #11), so the OP is aware of it, but she will likely fit a "standard" plate. It is a good point to consider though, and can be overlooked.

I'm just curious, because I take note of which brands of plates come in more than one size, and what the shorter plate heights are: Which brand of plate comes in 13.5"? I don't have that one on my list yet, apparently.

Blue Sparkle
 

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