Considerations around switching to a BP/W

[randpchi]

Strangely enough I kinda agree with Neil.
I don't have issues with my lift and have great flexibility in what I can do. I guess what is strange to that side of the fence is that I do not have all the so called annoyances they think I do.


I do wonder what the best compromise would be for 3-7 ml in a single wing. Would love a straight answer.

 

[randpchi]

And rereading the op, if you are going to spend around $800 us on a bp/w the Hydos is a viable option.

 

[rombre]

Ok, so is a dry suit in your future? How about buying a 7 ml? If so, would a wing be ok with both?
Besides Galapagos where would you travel to use a 7?

I think most of my travelling would be covered by 3mm / 5mm (that's what I used so far).
I would like to take up some UK diving, which would require a 7mm and / or drysuit (+ the above mentioned Galapagos for a 7mm).

If it is the vastly superior solution to a single wing that is not ideal for anything, I could potentially live with 2 wings and get a 20 lbs for the travelling (3mm / 5mm) and another one for colder water - even though I don't particularly like the idea as it is added complication + another $350 - $400. The second one however would need to work for 7mm and drysuit, I certainly wouldn't get 3 (however that would leave the problem that without directly buying a 7mm + a drysuit I wouldn't know the required lift for that second wing).

And rereading the op, if you are going to spend around $800 us on a bp/w the Hydos is a viable option.

One rig including UK shipping and customs would cost be about $670. With a second one that would be around $1,000 - $1,100.
The Hydros would certainly be the much cheaper option (~$620) but also loses a lot of the advantages of a BP/W.

 

[randpchi]

I am not invested in what you chose, whatever works for you.


you look at the hydos without the weight pouches it is a pretty simple design, back inflate with trim pouches that puts weight between your lungs and tank, with simple straps. Not sure what big advantages bp/w has other than the ability to change
wings + plates. The Hydros would do all you want and bp/w would too esp. With 2 wings. Costs being close.

To me the big question is would a single wing be ok for all your needs.

 

[randpchi]

Btw. Get more experience and do Galapagos. Even my checkout dive there was unforgettable. You won't care what kind of bc you have.

 

[stuartv]

@rombre, I think you are overthinking this and paralyzing yourself by trying to look at too many options.

First, if a Hydros would work for everything you want to do, then a single BP/W of the same lift capacity would also work for everything you want to do. You're letting yourself get distracted by the fact that you COULD use different sized wings for different things.

The Hydros is 40 # of lift in most Men's sizes. To me, that's sucky because it's too big. But, you could get a BP/W with a 40# wing and be able to do all the same stuff as you could with a Hydros. But, when you go dive in nice warm water in a 3mm, whether it's a Hydros or a BP/W, 40# of lift means you're dragging around a way bigger bladder than you need. The BP/W advantage is that you CAN have a 40# wing AND switch to a 20# wing for those warm water occasions. With a Hydros, you're stuck with a big, floppy air cell even when you totally don't need it.

If you are budget conscious and want one BCD that will do everything from board shorts and a rash guard to dry suit, then just get a BP/W with enough lift for the worst case (dry suit or 7mm) and use it for everything. It will be just as good as (or better than) the Hydros in every situation. And give you the OPTION to get a smaller wing later, if and only if you want to.

I suspect that a 30 - 35# wing would be plenty for you, even in a dry suit.

Personally, I have a DSS BP and wing, which is currently my rig dedicated to single tank diving. Well, these days, it's the DSS BP and a Hog wing. I haven't used the DSS wing since I got the Hog. But, I have a VDH BP on my Christmas list and as soon as I get that and try it out to make sure I like it, I expect to sell my whole DSS rig.

For you, I would suggest to at least consider a VDH plate and a wing like the Dive Rite Voyager (35#) or Hog (32#) or OMS (32#).

The VDH plate is $75.
Store - Vintage Double Hose

DR Voyager is $280.
Dive Rite Voyager Wing | Dive Gear Express®

OMS is $263.
OMS Performance Mono Wing | Dive Gear Express®

Hog is $300.
Hog 32lb Wing for Single Cylinder Diving - Dive Right in Scuba

You could also consider a DSS LCD30 wing or a DSS Torus 35. I have the LCD30 and it's a good wing. But, it's a horseshoe wing and I have determined that I prefer a donut, so I plan to sell mine and not get another. And the Torus is also a good wing. But, it doesn't have a zipper to give access to the inner bladder, which means you can't do a field repair if you happen to get a puncture or pinch flat. All those other wings I listed do have a zipper and give you that option. Thus why I would go for one of those.

With that VDH plate, one of those wings, and a basic Hogarthian harness, you could have a complete rig, ready to dive in any wetsuit or drysuit you want, for somewhere well under $400. And never NEED to buy another wing or change anything (unless you start diving doubles).

 

[stuartv]

ps. The VDH plate won't work for doubles. But, it puts the tank closer to your back than any conventional back plate, which makes you more streamlined, and not balanced on the spine of the BP. And not even further from your center of gravity, perched on an STA. I haven't tried one yet, but it seems like a great idea.

With the caveat that I haven't tried one myself yet, I have to say that the only reasons I can see for anyone buying a BP/W to get a conventional back plate (versus the VDH) are:

One, they want to be able to dive doubles without buying an additional BP. I think this reason usually turns out to be bogus anyway as it seems like most people who dive doubles end up owning at least 2 back plates anyway. I currently own 3 and I've only been diving less than 2 years. I got my dedicated doubles SS BP on a sale from LP for $50. That plus the cost of a VDH plate isn't much more than the normal cost of just a SS BP. So, I definitely wouldn't make it a high priority to get one plate that will work for both singles and doubles.

Two, they want the extra weight of a SS BP. A prime example would be diving in warm water with just shorts and a rash guard and an AL80. A SS BP might be enough weight by itself to mean no weight belt or any other additional weight, whereas the VDH plate might still require the diver to carry a few pounds of lead. Personally, I'm going to put 2 trim weight pockets on a tank strap, when I assemble my VDH rig, and I'll put any required lead in there, and I think that'll be just fine. 2 x 2# weights in small trim pockets pushed right down against the BP aren't going to affect my drag in the water enough for me to notice.

The DSS SS BP has been nice because I have the bolt-on weight plates for it, which add 8#. I've used that with my 3/2mm suit and an AL80 a number of times. But, as most newer divers, my weighting requirements have come down and now I can dive with that much weight and be fine, but I really don't need nearly that much. And the bolt-on weight plates don't really give any option for using an intermediate amount of weight. So, to get my best weighting, I really need to ditch them and just add 2 - 4 # in trim pockets - which puts me squarely on using a VDH plate and trim pockets anyway.

Anyway, just food for thought.

 

[rombre]

Thanks Stuart, really appreciate your detailed input.

At the beginning I was thinking exactly the same: Just get a 30lbs and even if it's larger than necessary for warm water, it surely won't be worse than a jacket BC that is used for all kind of suits. Since then, people have convinced me that A) the experience in warm water with an e.g. 20lbs would be far superior and B) the 30lbs might actually not be sufficient for a drysuit. This is when I got into the overthinking mode

If you are budget conscious and want one BCD that will do everything from board shorts and a rash guard to dry suit, then just get a BP/W with enough lift for the worst case (dry suit or 7mm) and use it for everything. It will be just as good as (or better than) the Hydros in every situation. And give you the OPTION to get a smaller wing later, if and only if you want to.
I suspect that a 30 - 35# wing would be plenty for you, even in a dry suit.

Am not terribly budget conscious and generally even willing to get 2 wings if it is indeed that much better. My next problem there is, that apparently it might be that a 30lbs is not enough depending on the drysuit / the undergarment I'll use. Especially if I'm using (for now) rental dry suits, I just don't know what their buoyancy will be.

Therefore I'm currently thinking about the 2 options:
A) Get a 20lbs now which will be great for my warm water diving. Try cold water diving in 7mm / drysuits with rental gear for now (and only think about a second wing if I decide to buy a drysuit)
B) Get a 35lbs now and hope that it is enough for the drysuits I will use and doesn't have a too negative impact on my warm water diving (compared to the 20lbs)

Thanks also for the VDH suggestion. The inability to use doubles is not important to me. I have to plans to go for doubles any time soon and even if I do, I'd survive the expense for a second backplate. Your second point however is an important one for me. I'm very much looking at getting a SS BP to minimise the extra weight I need and the DSS weight plate option might be an interesting one for cold water at a later stage.

On the prices: Given I need it shipped to the UK, there's an additional $150 - $200 for shipping + customs for me.

 

[stuartv]

If you decide you want to go ahead and start with a warm water wing, I would totally give this some consideration:

DGX Custom - DGX Singles Harness / Backplate / Wing Package | Dive Gear Express®

$299 for a complete rig, ready to go. The wing is (I'm told) identical to the Dive Rite Travel EXP wing, just with DGX's logo on it.

You could spend a LOT more money for a DSS SS rig with the bolt-on weight plates (which are $100 alone!) that would total up to 14# of weight. Or you can get that DGX rig with a 2# plate, add 2 trim weight pockets on the tank bands, and put 2 5# weights in them to get you to 12#, total. Put 2 more trim weight pockets on the other tank bands, for another 10#, if you want. But, the main points are:

- you don't have to fly with that weight (as you would with a 14# DSS plate (counting bolt-ons).

- when you need weight that is more than 6 but less than 14, you can have exactly the right amount.

- as your personal weighting requirements drop (from experience, eventual permanent wetsuit compression, etc), you can take off 2 # of weight at a time from your rig. If you need to drop 4# and you're using bolt-on weights, you are stuck either being over weighted or dropping 8# and adding back 4# of lead anyway, defeating the purpose of buying the weight plates.

- weights in pockets on your tank bands lets you distribute them however you need to, for best trim. Got a drysuit with floaty feet? Move all your weights to the lower tank strap (or maybe a weight belt on your waist, just depending). In a 3mm wetsuit and using heavy fins (e.g. ScubaPro Jet fins) that are making your feet hang down? Move the weights to the top tank strap. Or put 2 trim weight pockets on each tank strap and divvy up the weight into 4 to spread it out more evenly. it's totally flexible to work however you need it to.

If you need more than 14# of weight, then even with the SS plate and bolt-ons, you'll still end up with either a weight belt or weights on the tank straps. In which case, you may as well just handle all the weight that way. I mean, once I have to put on a weight belt at all, at that point it really doesn't matter to me whether the belt has 2 # on it or 10#.

 

[randpchi]

I agree with Stuart that you may be over thinking it and I can relate to paralysis by analysis I am the same way.

I really don't think a 30 or 35# wing would be as bad as some folks say. I see 3 choices.

1. Bp/w with a 35 and live with it
2. Smaller wing for travel and rent if you need to until you get a wing for cold water
3. Hydros.


But my opinion is just that, Hope you work it out.