Concerns on PADI open water course.

[Jut]

Hey all,
Well i've just finished my PADI Open water course today, I am currently a member of BSAC as an ocean diver (open water equivilent).
Well I must express some serious concerns i have with the PADI open water qualification which i noticed.
Firstly and most importantly I feel that the course gives too great a qualification in only 5 days - 6 hours in a pool and 2 in open water. It has a rushed feel to it with the instructor only seeking basic ability to perform the skills required instead of making the students do the skill properlly i.e. seeing someone get a pass for barely clearing their mask after several failed attemps and panics when they should have continued to practice this skill untill she was able to clear her mask with ease. what would happen if she couldnt clear during an openwater dive and paniced?
During my BSAC training i had big problems with mask clearing, i was shown how to do it and the instructor gave me an entire pool session dedicated to mask clearing to help me along. I now have the confidence to clear a mask with ease. The girl in PADI can barely clear hers and made several bolts for the surface during the open water.
Several people were refused BSAC qualification untill they had done some more pool traiing and another open water dive to proove they could do the skill with ease.
I have other concerns with the PADI open water asides from the rushed feel to it.
The general content. With my training experience we were never taught important things like cramp releif-except a brief mention in the video, nor did we do any skin diving other than the swim test (duck diving etc..). Figures like the rate of descent and assent were not taught to us other than to not go faster than your bubbles. BSAC told us the reccomened speeds and how to measure them with a watch and your dive gauge.
It seemed like i was been given the bare essentials to dive and then told i can roam free.
The tests were a shambles, not only did the instructor show us the answers for the knowledge reviews instead of testing us on them, he did it just before each test. this information that the student is been tested on will only just been placed in short term memory and there is no guarentee this information will be retained beyond the end of the test. ahh yes the tests were done in "relaxed" conditions with the students confering.
I do have more to say but i have to go out so i shall write more when i have the time.

I will end though by saying that 4 out of 7 people in my group are not safe to dive, yet they recieved their certificate.

 

[GUEdiver]

Bad instructors come in all agencies, as do the good ones. Sorry your experience was rotten and left you feeling like the training was inadequate. The instructors I teach with and know (PADI and NAUI) never cut-corners, and we do deny people who aren't ready, no matter how long it takes.

On the positive side, at least you have the perspective of your previous diving education experience, and it sounds like you are responsible enough to understand limits. If you practice and dive carefully, no doubt you will grow into a more proficient and knowledgable diver. And be prepared, you will see good and bad in all divers/instructors at all levels and in all agencies. Choose carefully and you will be happy.

Best regards and safe diving.

 

[wreckchick]

I'm coming up on my 1st anniversary of starting my training through PADI and I have to say, I didn't appreciate the instruction I got until after I finished my certification. The class was conducted in a professional manner, we were given many exercises including cramp removal while maintaining buoyancy, LOTS of mask drills, reg drills, impromptu quizzing in class, etc. Out of my class there is only one person that I wouldn't dive with.

Since then I have seen students from PADI and other certifying agencies that scare me to be on the same boat with even if I'm not buddied with them. I spent an entire dive sucking air like a fiend because a pair of divers made me so nervous.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but know that it's the instructor and the dedication of the student that have far more to do with the quality of the diver than the certifying agency, imho of course.

Rachel

 

[norcaldiver]

Stop! Replace PADI with your instrcutor's name.

PADI Open Water Course becomes Instr. John Doe's Open Water Course. It's not PADI that is the problem, it the instructor. I get tired of hearing PADI this and PADI that. Yeah, it's hard to believe that some people became instructors, but I assure you that showing you answers before the test is not tought in IDC, and these people get weeded out quickly.

Do everyone behind you a favor and find a Course Director, or write to PADI directly and tell them what you've told us. That way maybe all the future divers won't have to go through what you have.

PM me if you need names and numbers.

 

[Fishkiller]

PADI Open Water Course becomes Instr. John Doe's Open Water Course.

With that one sentence pretty well sums up my feelings I have been a certified diver for 2 years now and I would hope and pray no other has the same trials I did, what it boils down to now is as a Father of a soon to be certified needs the OW dives to go, young diver, am being particular as to the instructor doing the instructing, reguardless of which PADI store I go too. I guess it also goes to show you it is the instructor that teaches not the agency, it just sets the guidelines

 

[Walter]

I have serious concerns about that course myself.

Yes, the instructor can teach an excellent course regardless of what agency they represent, but the bottom line is the vast majority teach minimum standards. If those minimum standards are good, you get a good course, it they've been lowering standards for decades, you get a much poorer course as a result. It is also true that instructors are products of their agencies. You can't teach if if you've never learned it.

You might be able to get some action on the course you described, because it does seem some corners were cut, but with a few exceptions it sounds pretty typical as do the results (4 of 7 not safe to dive).

The bottom line is things will continue to get worse before they get better (if ever). Some agencies are more concerned with quanity than quality.

 

[bwerb]

It's not an instructor thing...it's an industry thing. Far too many instructors and shops within any agency look to the almighty dollar and the "I'm OK, You're OK; anyone can be a diver...I paid for the course, therefore I paid to be certified" mentality.

It does not make economic sense for LDS who sell gear to make money to try to keep the masses away. If classes truly were really hard to pass and cost what they should to ensure correct teaching you would likely find the entire industry begin to collapse.

What is the solution? I don't want the government involved but it would be interesting to have an independent testing body so that the decision to pass or fail a student rests with an outside authority, not the shop who has a vested interest in creating as many customers as possible (both for gear and for more classes).

So, since this is not going to happen overnight or perhaps ever...I think it comes down to being more of a community responsibility. I would like to vow to do all I can personally to help out divers who I see as needing assistance to get better. I want to become a great diver not only for my own edification but also to be an example to others as to what diving is all about. I think it is going to have to come down to a diver by diver dedication to setting and example and an openess to share what has been learned.

The system is broken in many places...here's what we can each chose to do to help.

Brian

 

[Walter]

Exactly. We should all work to fix the parts we can. If you teach, teach beyond standards - especially if you teach for an agency with low standards. Better yet, if your agency has low standards, look for an agency with higher standards and attend a crossover. Encourage high standards by not supporting agencies with poor standards.

If you don't teach, encourage prospective divers to shop for more comprehensive courses. Don't buy the "task loading" argument.

If you see an instructor who cuts corners on standards, report him to his agency. If an instructor teaches minimum standards, encourage students to go to someone who teaches a better quality course.

Help less experienced divers you see. Be a good example and ask if they are interested in a few pointers.

Look for a mentor.

Be a mentor.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm with Brerb it's an industry thing. Ant poor sob who owns a dive shop must be concerned with numbers regardless of what the agency is concerned with. It's darn hard to make a shop float teaching good classes when the shop down the street sells bad classes for good prices.

In the course of a season I see many instructors from all agencies and I don't see instructors from one agency doing a better job than those from another agency.

IMO, All the agencies are completely failing at quality control

I don't think there is a recreational agency who has a clue!

 

[pt40fathoms]

I have heard horror stories about every agency without exception.

I have also heard glowing reviews about every egency as well.

The final word on this subject is very simple. It is the instructor who counts, not the agency that the course name is attached to.

If you have a problem, and have names, dates and specifics. Do the industry a favour and complain to the agency that the instructor is affiliated with.

Gripping and moaning about how bad this or that agency is, will only feed the fuel to spur on those in the industry who have an axe to grind. And let me tell you, their are a lot of them out there and on this board as well, who are just waiting to jump on the "(insert name) are so bad, and this proves it" bandwagon.