Concerning Litigation

[mikswi]

First, show me a lawyer worthy of my respect. Please, I bego of you. Show me one!

Wow!.........Dont you think thats a pretty strong & all encompassing statement? I know very little of H2Andy, only what he has allowed us to learn about him thru his postings here so Im reserved about making such blanketed statements.

What can be done is that whe npeople are sent to jail it is a bad enough place that people do not want to go back.

I agree completely.

And at the same time We start to change the perception of ex-cons in society to people who have paid for their crimes so they have a possibility of getting a good job when they get out.

I dont agree at all. Every person born into this country has a clean slate. If you break the law, you should be punished accordingly. It is at THIS TIME, that you have lost all of society's confidence in your ability to act as a human being. THATS why your in jail, because you have demonstrated that you are no longer able to live within the laws. When you get out, you have to re-earn society's trust, thats why its called "PROBATION"! You are being allowed another chance to cohabitate with society, screw up again=back ya go.

You want ME to change my view of someone who just came out of prison for rape? or Murder? or Home Invasion? Possibly where all 3 offences were commited? Nope-No way.........You want my trust? Earn it. While yer in jail living off my taxes (which is $$ I would rather spend on my children) and trying to manipilate the clogged judicial sytem in your quest to get released on a technicality, LEARN A TRADE!!! Get your GED, study up on botany-engine repair-take a few psycology courses and try to figure out the REASON why you commited the crimes-ANYTHING!

Nobody simply resets a switch when you walk out of the prison. We try to train our children the same way. If they constantly come home after curfew or dont complete chores or consistantly exhibit improper behavior, what do you do? You punish them. You take away some of their liberty's, TV,video games,car, money- whatever it is and they DONT get it back until they have again, earned your trust! Its the SAME thing with criminals.


And regarding your comment of "who have paid for their crimes so they have a possibility of getting a good job when they get out" Well, what did they do before they went in? Why cant they return to that trade? Or if they had none, why should THEY be GIVEN a shot at a career that another person more deserving of may be. Once again, learn when yer in-stay out when yer out.

Every one of us is who we are, becasue of the decisions we make/made. Speaking for myself, I am who I am becasue of what I did, I made myself a productive member of society. Nobody gave me anything. Yep, I got the loans-I got projects that others were passed over for. But I got them because I earned their trust and respect and a demonstrated track record.

And yes, I have hired ex cons, addicts from rehab ect. They had the skills but they just wanted something handed to them. They displayed an attitude that they were cheated out of something and had it comiong to them. Im sure they are NOT all like that, just the ones I had.

Im not slamming you and your opinion here, everyone has a right to it. I just went off on a tyrade here, ive had some problems lately with the exact type of people you are trying to "forgive and forget"

O.K.im done..................
till I see another thread that ignites me again.....

 

[pipedope]

Ok ladies and gentlemen, we need to watch our deportment here.

Just for the sake of imagery, think of me as a judge sitting up at the front of the room, wearing the black robe and holding the wooden gavel. My job is to keep things civil and make sure proper procedure and decorum are followed.

Contempt of board citations can take the form of warnings, 5 day vacations from the board or in extreme cases a permanent ban.

We need to discuss the subject at hand without personal attacks or insults. As long as we stay on focus and avoid getting personal the discussion will continue.

Anyone who wants to resort to insults or attacks will be invited to do so elsewhere.

 

[scubasean]

We need to discuss the subject at hand without personal attacks or insults. As long as we stay on focus and avoid getting personal the discussion will continue.

I agree that personall attacks and insults are not warranted...here or anywhere...

But, What exactly is the subject at hand? This thread lost merit long ago.

 

[scubasean]

Nobody simply resets a switch when you walk out of the prison. We try to train our children the same way. If they constantly come home after curfew or dont complete chores or consistantly exhibit improper behavior, what do you do? You punish them. You take away some of their liberty's, TV,video games,car, money- whatever it is and they DONT get it back until they have again, earned your trust! Its the SAME thing with criminals.

I must be doing it wrong...at least according to your principles, as I understand them.

Once my kids have been punished, I don't hold it against them unless and until they are repeat offenders...If you don't teach them trust, they will never learn it. And I do not treat my kids the same as I might treat an ex-prisoner...

I agree with you that I would not be one to place lots of trust in someone who just got out of jail/prison, depending on the crime. Not that I am aware of any of my acquaintences ever falling in that category...Hmmmmm

 

[suthnbelle]

Since the lawyers always get paid, they are willing to file even the silliest most frivolous lawsuits in which people are willing to participate. If the losing lawyers bore some of the financial responsibility to recompense those unjustly accused and their legals costs much of this would be solved right now. As it stands, the lawyers have nothing to lose and everything to gain even from the weakest case--and fully expect most of them to be settled out of court for outrageous fees just because of the terrible expense of defending oneself from junk lawsuits.

theskull

Not all attorneys gain from their cases. If it's a personal injury case the attorney gets nada if there is not a settlement. What the attorney and paralegal (you know, the one who does the majority of the work) has to lose is time and money. Attorneys have to upfront case costs in PI cases before a cases is even settled. I've seen the attorney I work for cut his fee in many cases just so the client will get a settlement that fairly compensates them for the negligence of another person. Not all attorneys are sharks - some are though - believe me I have to deal with these individuals on a daily basis. You do have your good attorneys and bad attorneys. Not fair to lump them all together. Okay you diving attorneys you can back me up now.

Since I defended the legal profession, any attorneys looking for a paralegal let me know. I want to relocate to a tropical island where I can dive as often as possible!

 

[scubafool]

I've never seen a judge with cats on their shoulder.

Here are my thoughts on the matter. While we NEED civil litigation (& the threat of it) to curb those who consider only themselves & would profit from permanently harming others, I think that things have gone just a little too far. I think that far to many of us live our lives in fear of a lawsuit. If this fear wasn't so real & present, more of us might be willing to invite the neighborhood kids over for a swim in our pool, or to play on the swingset, etc.

A lot of this should be started on the personal level. THINK about what you are about to do. Consider the possible outcomes, including harm to yourself, but more importantly, harm to others. If something that you have done results in harm to yourself, accept that it is YOUR fault. Quit trying to blame someone else for your poor judgement. If something you have done results in harm to others, immediately admit to it & do your best to make up for it. It is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY. Learn it, live it!

 

[mikswi]

I must be doing it wrong...at least according to your principles, as I understand them.

Once my kids have been punished, I don't hold it against them unless and until they are repeat offenders...If you don't teach them trust, they will never learn it. And I do not treat my kids the same as I might treat an ex-prisoner...

I agree with you that I would not be one to place lots of trust in someone who just got out of jail/prison, depending on the crime. Not that I am aware of any of my acquaintences ever falling in that category...Hmmmmm

I agree with you. Thats why I stated "If they constantly come home late or consistantly exhibit ........." Its not a 1 time and yer out kinda thing, as you inferred. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Believe me, I was raised in a totalitarian household, I am constantly evaluating my actions to see if they can be altered and still accomplish what is needed.

 

[adder70]

Let's leave guns out of this before I get started. I live in St. Louis, one of 2 counties in Missouri that prevents me from getting a CCW permit in violation of state law...

At the risk of hijacking, have you contacted the NRA? I am sure there are quite a few lawyers out there who go pro bono to get an improper law revoked.

I think it would involve applying for a CCW and being denied based on that law, at which point you would sue the county. Or does the law simply not recognize CCW's? In that case, someone who lives elsewhere could move in while in possession of a CCW. Then a call could be made to both police and the media so the police are forced to make an arrest for illegal possession, at which point the law would be challenged.

Just a thought, and obviously someone has to risk the criminal prosecution, but someone has to stand up for their beliefs.

 

[adder70]

What can be done is that whe npeople are sent to jail it is a bad enough place that people do not want to go back.

A very good point. Jail is now almost better than freedom for many people. At least in jail you get food regularly. You could make them do work, but then unions would protest the loss of jobs. (This actually happened in a town where criminal were being used to landscape. The county workers union actually sued to block the program, saying it was their job to do this, and they couldn't be replaced by criminals to save money.) Of course, you could get plenty of work on farms for the prisoners, and only illegal aliens would be "laid off". I LIKE that idea!!

And at the same time We start to change the perception of ex-cons in society to people who have paid for their crimes so they have a possibility of getting a good job when they get out.

Has it occurred to you the type of people that go to jail in the first place? For many criminals, the reason they became criminals is because they were too lazy, hungover, or busy STILL drinking and smoking pot to show up at all for work, much less on time or with a decent attitude. (I know from whence I speak. I have a group of cousins who are all less than beneficial to society. They can't keep a job because they have no respect for themselves or anyone else. A couple can only keep jobs on horrible nasty fishing boats where their feet are always infected because a 50% show up rate is good enough. Another got in the navy (after problems with drinking and getting in bar fights) and promptly got a DUI just a couple of months after basic. They told him no more bars, period, or you are out. It only took him a couple of months to be caught at a bar where a fight took place and sent home with a general discharge. Another lost her kids for a good while for staying with a guy who shot himself in the neck with a gun while in sight of her daughters and just outside the house where his own son was. So of course the son came right out and saw his father in that shape. If you wanted a listing of her sexual partners before age 15, I would guess you might want to sit down. That might have had something to do with supervision. She was 9, and out at 10:30. Her mother didn't know where she was and was not worried. Her sister lost custody of 2 of her kids forever becasue she was hooked on crack and would not leave her husband who beat her (he could get her the crack) and also abused the boys in such a way that they reacted quite disturbingly to the presence of men for years afterward.)

Sure, the desire to make people continue paying for their crimes is why ex-cons can't get (or keep) even decent jobs!

 

[Scubaguy62]

Typically, Insurance companies seem to want to settle out of court for two reasons. 1. the award might be higher that the covered ammount, and in some stated the insurance company can be required to pay the full award even if it exceeds the covered amount. Currently Lloyds of London is suing a lawfirm over a case like this where they covered a swilmming pool for $1 million and they then lost a law suit and were required to pay $30 million. Or, 2. The cost of continuing to defend the case will cost more than an offered settlement.

It is because of those two reasons, especially number 2 that there are so many law suits. A client and his or her lawyer are well aware that they have a potential to pick up some fast money by pushing even a weak case because the insurance company will normally push for an out of court settlement rather that invest more money into even a winning case.

I don't know when was the last time you had some 1st hand knowledge of this, but I can tell you from 1st hand experience, that this is a fallacious stereotype. Insurance companies no longer offer quick settlements, for fear of the cost of litigation, in all, or for that matter, most cases. I have worked enough insurance defense cases to tell you that the number of judgments (notice the key word not being settlements), where the amount of the award the insurance company has had to pay is 1/3 the amount of the plaintiff's attorney's fees, are more than I care to count. There is also the appeals process, which insurance companies are using more and more often.

Insurance companies are defending lawsuits more often than we care to admit for one major reason, insurance fraud. This is not something that is lawyer created, but people created. Attorneys are prohibited from "ambulance chasing," and are also prohibited from filing frivolous lawsuits, and despite major public opinion, greater than 90% adhere to these prohibitions. On the other hand, crooks do chase ambulances and jump in front of them to keep from having to work. Do you know how much "street beggers" have made in one year?