Conception trial begins

[pauldw]

Regarding the direct examination transcript of the guy who apparently wasn’t an expert witness but sure seemed to be testifying as if he was one: I was surprised there was not much foundation laid about his specific experiences on other vessels. Do these licenses that he has require a set number of hours on vessels, or a minimum number of vessels worked on, or are they just like a driver license--you can drive, but it doesn't mean you've done much driving?

 

[Manatee Diver]

there's some generic testing that's been done to indicate that a lithium battery fire probably could not have been extinguished

Which testing? The smaller lithium batteries in these devices can be put out with a standard fire extinguisher.

 

[KevinNM]

Regarding the direct examination transcript of the guy who apparently wasn’t an expert witness but sure seemed to be testifying as if he was one: I was surprised there was not much foundation laid about his specific experiences on other vessels. Do these licenses that he has require a set number of hours on vessels, or a minimum number of vessels worked on, or are they just like a driver license--you can drive, but it doesn't mean you've done much driving?

Master license requires a significant number of days of credited sea service doing certain things plus a bunch of classes and at least one test. The bigger the boat and the farther out to sea the more time, the more classes and more specific the service must be.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Which testing? The smaller lithium batteries in these devices can be put out with a standard fire extinguisher.

I can't find the one I was looking for but there's this, which includes the warning: "Fire in lithium-ion batteries can be fierce and very unpredictable, emitting large amounts of extremely toxic gasses." Many of you seem to be under the impression that this fire could have been easily contained and that one battery going off wouldn't trigger the others. That may or may not be true and it again begs the question of, Why weren't some of these simulations done to bolster their case and provide a bit more definitive answers and perspective?

A Lithium-Ion battery on fire | If

In the video we demonstrate common mistakes made when attempting to extinguish a Lithium-Ion battery fire. Persons without the required skills and personal protective equipment should not attempt to extinguish a Lithium-Ion battery fire.

www.if-insurance.com

 

[Cthippo]

I admit I am not specifically familiar with "Seaman's negligence', but i talk about negligence when I teach Emergency Vehicle operator classes. There are three componets to negligence:

1 A duty to act
2 A failure to act
3 Damages resulting from that failure.

Clearly the Captain had a duty to set a night watch. Clearly he failed in that duty. Clearly there were damages. Where I see this breaking down is whether the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that if a watch had been set that the damages would have been less or avoided. Intuitively, that seems true, but am I sure of that beyond a reasonable doubt? Ehhh, not yet.

 

[Bob DBF]

I can't find the one I was looking for but there's this, which includes the warning: "Fire in lithium-ion batteries can be fierce and very unpredictable, emitting large amounts of extremely toxic gasses." Many of you seem to be under the impression that this fire could have been easily contained and that one battery going off wouldn't trigger the others. That may or may not be true and it again begs the question of, Why weren't some of these simulations done to bolster their case and provide a bit more definitive answers and perspective?

A Lithium-Ion battery on fire | If

In the video we demonstrate common mistakes made when attempting to extinguish a Lithium-Ion battery fire. Persons without the required skills and personal protective equipment should not attempt to extinguish a Lithium-Ion battery fire.

www.if-insurance.com

Once a fire spreads to the fiberglass over wood construction of that boat, the lithium battery fire and toxic gasses are nothing in comparison.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

1 A duty to act
2 A failure to act
3 Damages resulting from that failure.

From what's been published, they've honed in on #1 and #2. But without #3, I don't think there's a conviction.

 

[Wookie]

Regarding the direct examination transcript of the guy who apparently wasn’t an expert witness but sure seemed to be testifying as if he was one: I was surprised there was not much foundation laid about his specific experiences on other vessels. Do these licenses that he has require a set number of hours on vessels, or a minimum number of vessels worked on, or are they just like a driver license--you can drive, but it doesn't mean you've done much driving?

As an expert witness myself, I don't think Priddin was testifying as an expert. As you said, he did not appear to be qualified as an expert.

I think he was only there as an eyewitness to testify that Boylan was lackadaisical in his duties to the vessel. Does the CG require vessel specific training as Priddle intimated? No. No where in CG regs does vessel familiarization play a role.

Does the prudent Master provide said training? Absolutely, to the Mate and all of his required (deckhands) crew. Does the Coast Guard require a lifejacket drill within 24 hours of getting underway on an overnight voyage? Again, yes. Fire drills? Yes. Anyone who has been on a cruise ship has participated in a lifejacket/abandon ship muster. Probably not a fire drill, they are disruptive, can take hours, and usually happen in the engineroom so as to not bother the passengers. I never held a fire drill with PAX onboard either.

 

[KevinNM]

Once a fire spreads to the fiberglass over wood construction of that boat, the lithium battery fire and toxic gasses are nothing in comparison.

The polyurethane foam that apparently made up the cushions in the lounge burns energetically and smoky once you get it going. If I read the NIST study correctly, it yields about half a megawatt of heat per square meter per second. And I’ll bet there were more than a few square meters of cushion. For extra goodness, apparently a major product of the foam fire is hydrogen cyanide.

LI battery fires are quite nasty, but you are not dealing with a huge EV LI battery pack, it’s a much smaller and faster fire.. Still unclear that it was a LI pack.

 

[nolatom]

Interesting discussions, but does anyone know what happened in court on Friday? I understand the prosecution finished on Thursday. I’m interested in whether capt Boylan took the stand, or Fritzler for that matter. I don’t envy the jury having to suss this all out without having heard directly from both,
The prosecution evidently didn’t call Fritzler (for tactical reasons?). Will the defense call him so he can take the Fifth, and look bad? Doubtful.

Having practiced law in both the Coast Guard and in Federal Court sitting in Admiralty, I almost prefer the former—because the jurors (members) can ask the Military Judge to call witnesses they want to hear from, even if Counsel on both sides don’t want to, or didn’t think was necessary, but the jurors did.