Computers & DIR

[FIXXERVI6]

Uhm, if the profiles were designed to force bubble growth a lot more team members would have been pretzeled or killed. That is not what WKPP deco methods do at all. They actually minimize bubble growth. More conventional profiles cause more bubble growth. The longer stop times of these strategies help treat that. Weinke is the anti-bubble master and he generated a lot of the profiles the team used in the earlier days since it was one of the few groups willing to actually dive his stuff.

Part of where you are confused is that the team does rely on people in very good shape who can get away with microbubble offgassing after the final stops. But, most commercial and military deco diving operations do the same thing by simply washing out the people that can't handle that. Most deco dives invovle microbubbles anyway. It is just a matter of being able to handle it. If you do not have PFO type issues and are in great cardio shape, this is just another way of accelerating deco. If you do have these issues, you will eventually get badly whacked no matter how long you stay in the water.

If someone that can actually explain this stuff better cares to jump in here, that would be great because I have just glossed over huge amounts of relevant info.

In the latest GUE video GI talks about deco and forcing bubble growth in the shallow stops to speed up deco. If I had my DVD's with me I'd quote the section for you but they are at home, and I'm at work... on scuba board.. reading... while at work

 

[RTodd]

In the latest GUE video GI talks about deco and forcing bubble growth in the shallow stops to speed up deco. If I had my DVD's with me I'd quote the section for you but they are at home, and I'm at work... on scuba board.. reading... while at work

And I just gave you the answer to what he is actually talking about. Feel free to argue with others about this. I have corrected the misinformation for those that care.

 

[FIXXERVI6]

And I just gave you the answer to what he is actually talking about. Feel free to argue with others about this. I have corrected the misinformation for those that care.

So in the video when is talking about bubbling on purpose, your saying I am mis understanding him when he says this?

I'm not arguing, I watched the video and listened to him and my understanding was when they hit shallow they push it hard, bubble, and let the lungs filter out the bubbles.

Not trying to hijac a thread here just trying to get on track with understanding this.

 

[FIXXERVI6]

I'm on track with why they do deeper stops, I do the same, its the shallow stops where my understanding gets fuzzy I guess, my take on the GI way on shallow stops is to bubble into your blood on purpose to get it out really fast.

http://www.divetekadventures.com/Pictures/decoCurves_240_25BT.gif

and I'm not down with that method of getting inert gas out, PFO or not.

I'm not stating this as fact, if I am wrong, please correct me, I am by no means an expert on the matter.

 

[HarryH97]

WKPP forces bubble growth on purpose to get out of the water faster, there is no dive computer / program on the planet ever created or that will ever be created that does this, and there is NO way in hell I'd force bubble growth on the shallow stops just to get out of the water faster, and the other thing is I doubt there are any people on scuba board that performs dives of this level so I dont' see how it really applies, the VR3 wasnt' designed to break records on getting people out of the water, its meant to get you out of the water alive and as clean as possible in balance with getting out in reasonable time.

This is NOT completely true. At least the first part. As for VR3 getting me as clean as possible, I'll need to run some profiles with that computer to see if that's true versus deco that GUE teaches. In fact, it's about eliminating bubbles early on with deep stops. The only bubbles that develop on the surface is if it you've screwed up your deco/ascent. Having said that, if you do your deep stops, you can get away with quite a bit if things go bad on the surface or in the shallows. If you needed to get out early, you can and might risk Type I without more unnecessary exposure in the water. Of course being very clean is better than not clean/Type I and Type I is better than Type II and Type II is perferred over being dead.

As for aggressive versus recreational diving, the GUE curriculum on deco is built right from the get-go in Fundamentals. In that regard, recreational diving accounts for deco and progressively builds on that foundation based on the work by WKPP. As your exposure progressively exceeds beyond NDL/MDL, the same fundamental approach to deco is maintained. One can verify this thru decoplanner or other software and of course repeating similiar profiles to guage how one feels post dive.

Sincerely,
H2

 

[waynne fowler]

:frown11: I wish I could make it up, that trip to the Knot sounds like a lot of fun.

You would most certainly be welcome!...

 

[Jason B]

As for VR3 getting me as clean as possible, I'll need to run some profiles with that computer to see if that's true versus deco that GUE teaches.

Here's the part that rubs me wrong right here.
How do you know that what GUE taught you gets you out cleaner? Do you do doppler tests or something, or do you just believe their software more for some reason? What is that reason.

I was under the impression that all this deco stuff was all based on theory (else there wouldn't be so many different models out there). I could very well be wrong and maybe they have got it all down to a science, but it would seem that if that were the case, all computers would be the same.

Any insight to this would be great.

Thanks!

 

[Soggy]

Here's the part that rubs me wrong right here.
How do you know that what GUE taught you gets you out cleaner? Do you do doppler tests or something, or do you just believe their software more for some reason? What is that reason.

There is no software. That's the point. The WKPP did extensive Doppler tests on these types of profiles. The GUE profiles are based on the WKPP's research.

Plus, there's always the "I feel better" aspect, meaning, I don't want to go take a an hour after I get out of the water. By the time I've carried my gear off the boat, up the ramp, into my car, driven home, and carried my gear up 2 flights of stairs...yeah, I need that nap, but I'm fine on the boat ride home

 

[FIXXERVI6]

I'm going to pop the DVD in tonight and go back over what he talks about with deco and transcribe the part that he talks about bubbling on shallow stops, I could have sworn thats what he said.

 

[doole]

If its not obvious to you that 5@130 + 5@10 != 10@70 then this isn't for you.

It is - that's why I used it as an example.

Thanks - that was a reply I can use.