Computers & DIR

[pipedope]

I find the anti computer part in the DIR book to be a bit of a rant. You could easily extend it to the BT, after all it is really just a braindead computer.

OTOH For most diving a computer is not required and doesn't necessarily make things easier or more flexible.

If you train and practice to dive without a computer it can be just as easy and safe or even more easy and safe than using a computer.

Please be careful about using the WKPP deco for dives outside of the WKPP situation. The WKPP is doing very tough dives but they are in a limited type of dive including depth and runtimes. Please do not assume that their system for deco will work diving to greater depth or seriously different dive profiles.

The bottom line is that if you are training under GUE in the DIR system it is best to work in the system and learn how they dive and dive that way. At least untill you have far more training and experience to decide if you want or need something different.

 

[JeffG]

I find the anti computer part in the DIR book to be a bit of a rant. You could easily extend it to the BT, after all it is really just a braindead computer.

No you can't. The "rant" as you call it, is against the "NDL Remaining time" part of the computer...not the fact that it is an electronic piece of gear.

 

[Meng_Tze]

No you can't. The "rant" as you call it, is against the "NDL Remaining time" part of the computer...not the fact that it is an electronic piece of gear.

I think it is more towards the fact that a dive computer makes you 'lazy'. It is far easier to depend on a device that 'does it for you, tells you what to do' rather than doing those calculations in your head. If the device breaks, or halts, you have a 'lazy brain' that can not quickly cope. Analogy, how many people nowadays know how much change you should get when you buy something? Those simple calculations are done for people by the register.......not many people do them from their head anymore.

If in a situation you need to do manual calc's....all you need is a timer and depth. Your backup timer (usually a watch) and backup depth guage will do and if you know your profile (including deco) you are home free. :sly:

 

[BigJetDriver]

And I think a good argument could be made by analogy that complexity of technology is not necessarily always bad.....

An argument that you acknowledge the strength of every time every time you get on my airplane....!!

 

[HarryH97]

I think it is more towards the fact that a dive computer makes you 'lazy'. It is far easier to depend on a device that 'does it for you, tells you what to do' rather than doing those calculations in your head. If the device breaks, or halts, you have a 'lazy brain' that can not quickly cope. Analogy, how many people nowadays know how much change you should get when you buy something? Those simple calculations are done for people by the register.......not many people do them from their head anymore.

Exactly...Once the mind is taught and honed to calculate, depth and time tell you all you need: how much deco, where to place it and how much gas you've got left. Your mind naturally and automatically goes into a running clock. This eventually becomes second nature. You can check your gauges periodically to see if you're tracking. If that's not freedom, I don't know what is.

Sincerely,
H2

 

[JeffG]

I think it is more towards the fact that a dive computer makes you 'lazy'. It is far easier to depend on a device that 'does it for you, tells you what to do' rather than doing those calculations in your head.

Yes...but I was too lazy to type that out. I was hoping the reference to "Remaining NDL Time" would be good enough for the thinkers...and the non-thinkers. Well, they should use their computers.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Yes...but I was too lazy to type that out. I was hoping the reference to "Remaining NDL Time" would be good enough for the thinkers...and the non-thinkers. Well, they should use their computers.

:05:

 

[lamont]

I think it is more towards the fact that a dive computer makes you 'lazy'.

That's the argument that I don't like. You choose to let the dive computer make you lazy. Because of my job, that's a problem that I don't really have. A lot of people treat computers like little black boxes that either work or don't work and they shut their brains off. Anytime I use a computer I can't help myself but start to try to figure out how to reverse engineer it.

 

[Rick Inman]

Anytime I use a computer I can't help myself but start to try to figure out how to reverse engineer it.

Yeah, but that's you. That kind of thinking does not represent the average diver.

When my wife makes frozen peas, she pushes the button on the microwave that tells her when to cover them, when to uncover them, when to stir, when to let sit, when to take them out, when to eat them... and she obeys the machine to the letter.

Unlike me. I usually just punch start, then stick my finger into it now and then to see when they're hot.

You? You probably take the temperature of the frozen peas, and calculate with your slide rule how long X wattage of microwaves will take to get the peas to Y temperature.

 

[MHK]

That's the argument that I don't like. You choose to let the dive computer make you lazy.

The "lazy" argument certainly has merit to it but in my mind it isn't the dispositive issue. My broader concern is more along the lines of divers accepting what the computer calculates as gospel, coupled with the notion that as a result of using a computer divers need not learn about decompression theory, I mean, afterall the computer is doing the work for you. This is essentially the grudge against computers, especially when you consider that more often then not the built "conservation" of the underlying algorithm mitigates any potential increases in bottom time. Many of the recreational computers build in a conservation mechanism into the algorithm to account for the contributory factors of DCS, ie; age, smokers, PFO's, obesity, poor physical fitness, lack of skill etc. etc. so a divers knowledge is often times limited because they've accepted as gospel that which an unknown algorithim computes.

Additional considerations include, but are not limited to, the ability to incorporate deep stops into the ascent rate strategy, slower ascent rates, better physical conditioning, non-smoking and so on.. In the absence of a complete understanding of the issues, all too many divers have a limited understanding of the artifical limitations imposed by many of the computer models, but yet perceive these "NDL limits" as the penultimate holy grail solution to decompression theory. Next time you come across one of the die hard computer fans simply ask them "what is an M-value", and "how does your computer compute it." Normally, after a blank stare and a period of silence, you'll hear why it isn't important for a diver to know those answers. At that point, walk away because your point has been made. Surely, some of the newer computer models have attempted to address some of the foregoing concerns, and in that regard they are doing a better job, but at the end of the day a strong knowledge of decompression theory coupled with your individual recognition of your own body's make-up will likely provide a more reliable predictor of YOUR own limits when juxtaposed against a product that is mass produced for a more global and variable marketplace.

Hope that helps.

Regards