computer dependent divers...

[dweeb]

first of all, i know how to use the tables as i am a certified diver!

First of all, being a certified diver doesn't mean you know how to use the tables. I've seen plenty of certified divers who can't use the tables.
Second, *YOU* were the one who called your competence with the tables into question.

secondly i don't use the tables, i use a computer!

And by itself, that's not a bad thing. The problem isn't using a computer. The problem is, you are using magic.
To you, that computer might as well be a crystal ball.

third you can always be distracted. the phone could ring, your kids could scream, etc. doesn't mean you can't start again or continue and still do it right, but my comp will not have any probs with things like this.
it's easier, just as reliable, ergo better!

The problem is, it's NOT as reliable as you think it is, and you don't have any concept of the problems it CAN have, and, when it DOES have a problem, IT can't just start over like you can. One huge difference between the computer and your brain is that your brain is more fault tolerant and has better exception handling.

Because of your "ignorance is bliss" approach, and treating the computer as magic, not only do you fail to realize the potential for its failure, but you are completely unprepared to deal with it failing.

Because of the computer's capability for multilevel calculating, however, this practice usually is not feasible,

It's ENTIRELY feasible, for someone who understands decompression.

Generally, you cannot revert to the Dive Tables if the computer fails or is accidentally switched off.

Again, anyone who understands the concepts and relationships involved can easily do so.

Your only option in this case ar to discontinue diving for 24h or to limit any subsequent dives during that day to depths of 20 feet or less.

6 hours with the RDP. If you had no decompression obligation at the time you aborted the dive, you could go right back to diving using the tables, IF you understood how.

so again, i see no point in using a comp and a table. there is absolutely nothing wrong in depending on a computer!

There is everything wrong with depending completely on a single computer.

and the chances of 2 DIVE computers failing at once! sorry, but that is practically impossible!

Really, now. Yesterday, it was "I'm not a computer fixer or hacker!" Now you're a self-proclaimed expert on computer failure mechanisms? Hmmm. You happen to be utterly wrong.
If a computer fails due to a design defect, it is more probable that a computer using the same hardware and manufactured in the same general time period will fail around the same time than at a different time. If your computer fails due to physical damage, your buddy, whose luggage was right next to yours the whole trip, could have a similarly damaged computer. A software defect will likely manifest itself as a result of a specific type of profile, so another computer with the same software is more likely to fail while on the same dive. Smart divers use two different computers to rule out design flaws leaving them without a working computer.

and cause i really don't want to fight about this. you use your tables and dive safely.

Again, you miss the point. I use dive computers. I think they're wonderful. The difference is, for me they are not magic, and I dive prepared for them to fail.

i'll use my comp and dive safely.

Not safely. Let's put it this way - you dive with 1 computer, and are not prepared to handle it failing - then why do you have an octopus? After all, EVERY component of the cheapest tank and regulator is 100 times more reliable than the best dive computer on the market.

I strongly urge you to adopt a more informed, capable, and self-reliant approach to diving. Your current approach to self reliance and learning in general will not serve you well in life.

 

[dweeb]

Yes and you have to keep the audience in mind too. Many (maybe most) divers don't know and/or care how this stuff works enough to fall back to tables safely.

Then those people shouldn't dive. Actually, considering how easy it actually is, those people shouldn't be allowed out of an institution without professional supervision.

There are differences in the model you need to account for and if you don't know how the model works you can't account for them. It's that simple.

It's simpler than you think. If you don't have a decompression obligation at the time of switching, it's very simple. If you don't have a backup computer, you have no business incurring a decompression obligation.

 

[Diver0001]

Then those people shouldn't dive.

Well dweeb, in the real world they do. Nobody expects you to like it but the real world just isn't that cut and dry man. You've totally forgotton what it's like to be a newbie, haven't you?

It's simpler than you think. If you don't have a decompression obligation at the time of switching, it's very simple.

You don't have to convince me. I know how it works. I was just making an observation.

R..

 

[lairdb]

If you don't have a backup computer, you have no business incurring a decompression obligation.

As long as we're being pedantic,

1. You incur a decompression obligation every time you dive. Every dive is a deco dive, and thinking otherwise is muddy thinking.
   
2. Your position is inconsistent. If it is possible to transition safely from a failed computer to the tables mid-dive, then it is possible to transition safely from a failed computer to the deco tables mid-dive. What is the qualitative difference?

 

[String]

This may be a strange question to interject here but how many of you have had YOUR computer fail on a dive?

All this talk about what might, could, may, possibly happen is wonderful. Someone must have the actual statistics, or are they so low no-one can find them?

Although mine hasnt failed (touch wood), ive done 2 dives this year with people that have had their computers fail.

The one was a group of 3 diving and the computer simply refused to enter dive mode. In this instance the person with the failiure had a manual depth gauge, spg, watch and tables in pocket - the dive continued.

The second was a standard pair and buddy was using an AI computer, it turned itself OFF (ie display blank) at the bottom.
In this case the person did not have a backup SPG or depth gauge or water. The dive had to be aborted.

Oddly when we got back to the boat and manually turned it on the thing had logged the entire dive profile.

Its rare but can and does happen.

 

[underwater daphne]

First of all, being a certified diver doesn't mean you know how to use the tables. I've seen plenty of certified divers who can't use the tables.
Second, *YOU* were the one who called your competence with the tables into question.



And by itself, that's not a bad thing. The problem isn't using a computer. The problem is, you are using magic.
To you, that computer might as well be a crystal ball.



The problem is, it's NOT as reliable as you think it is, and you don't have any concept of the problems it CAN have, and, when it DOES have a problem, IT can't just start over like you can. One huge difference between the computer and your brain is that your brain is more fault tolerant and has better exception handling.

Because of your "ignorance is bliss" approach, and treating the computer as magic, not only do you fail to realize the potential for its failure, but you are completely unprepared to deal with it failing.



It's ENTIRELY feasible, for someone who understands decompression.



6 hours with the RDP. If you had no decompression obligation at the time you aborted the dive, you could go right back to diving using the tables, IF you understood how.



There is everything wrong with depending completely on a single computer.



Really, now. Yesterday, it was "I'm not a computer fixer or hacker!" Now you're a self-proclaimed expert on computer failure mechanisms? Hmmm. You happen to be utterly wrong.
If a computer fails due to a design defect, it is more probable that a computer using the same hardware and manufactured in the same general time period will fail around the same time than at a different time. If your computer fails due to physical damage, your buddy, whose luggage was right next to yours the whole trip, could have a similarly damaged computer. A software defect will likely manifest itself as a result of a specific type of profile, so another computer with the same software is more likely to fail while on the same dive. Smart divers use two different computers to rule out design flaws leaving them without a working computer.



Again, you miss the point. I use dive computers. I think they're wonderful. The difference is, for me they are not magic, and I dive prepared for them to fail.



Not safely. Let's put it this way - you dive with 1 computer, and are not prepared to handle it failing - then why do you have an octopus? After all, EVERY component of the cheapest tank and regulator is 100 times more reliable than the best dive computer on the market.

I strongly urge you to adopt a more informed, capable, and self-reliant approach to diving. Your current approach to self reliance and learning in general will not serve you well in life.

magic? now you make it seem as if i'm crazy!

i think we're totally misunderstanding each other. or you just want to misunderstand and misjudge me.

btw i actually do have 2 comps. one of my wrist and one on my hose. but i've had enough of justifying myself to you. you're a good expert diver and i'm a dumb diver who believes in magic and lives naively. really, you must know how i dive and live. i don't like being judged by complete strangers.

 

[Kim]

Hey Dweeb - are you upsetting people again!!!
Out of interest why haven't you filled out your profile......... you'll get DD on your back!

 

[Chocoholic]

Although mine hasnt failed (touch wood), ive done 2 dives this year with people that have had their computers fail.

The one was a group of 3 diving and the computer simply refused to enter dive mode. In this instance the person with the failiure had a manual depth gauge, spg, watch and tables in pocket - the dive continued.

The second was a standard pair and buddy was using an AI computer, it turned itself OFF (ie display blank) at the bottom.
In this case the person did not have a backup SPG or depth gauge or water. The dive had to be aborted.

Oddly when we got back to the boat and manually turned it on the thing had logged the entire dive profile.

Its rare but can and does happen.

The DM I was with had his dive computer go blank and he just looked at my computer for the rest of the dives. He had a back up depth gauge, I think. I think I will be getting a wrist mount computer because my Suunto is getting old.

 

[String]

Great - get a wrist mounted suunto

Stating the obvious but relying on someone elses computer isnt a good idea, they may have done different dives previously and even on the same dive the exact depth of 2 people is never the same therefore the decompression needed differs.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Do you really want to go on record saying that such a simple thing is that mentally taxing for you?

.

I do.



I ride my computer like a -roller coaster-.

I'm busy looking at the little fishies, or the backside of the divebabe in front of me.

I ain't doing algebra.

If my computer gives me 22 extra seconds of bottom time, I take it.

But I think the point that Daphne is missing, is that the difference between your computer, and, say, your fins, is that your fins are not making decisions that can kill you. The computer is.

Passive vs active.