Compact & RAW?

[RAWalker]

Here's a nice comparison & write-up on the compacts/point-and-shoot cameras out there:

Underwater Camera Articles: Review: Best Underwater Point & Shoot Cameras for 2009

That article is a joke it is based on what Backscatter sells and that leaves out a bunch of very good cameras.
Any article that is looking for best compact point and shoot cameras needs to consider Fuji and Casio.
They claim that to be considered the cameras needed to fit in a pocket when out of their housing for land use. Some of those tested would require some mighty big pockets.
Then there is the issue of best bang for the buck vs overall performance.
Although the gap is getting closer with the price of digital cameras falling, those cutting edge models still have a premium price while other models may be overlooked because they lack a feature like RAW data handling that may not be worth the premium price.
Learnning how to use a less expensive model to it's limit's and having the budget to add on useful accessories such as external strobes and add on lenses will do more for the quality of photos than having the best camera and being overwhelmed with features that may not help.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Rebut the whole Backscatter article RAWalker . . .point-by-point. Then enlighten us and clear the air with what your non-stinky opined solution for a definitive camera system would be, based on the OP requirements.

Perhaps a Fuji F50fd Camera w/ WP-FXF50 housing. 2 Pixtreme PX-21 strobes???

 

[Nemrod]

I think he has a point. RAW gets to much emphasis in my opinion. I have the RAW hack on my Canon and really, maybe just try to get a better picture to begin with than trying to post manipulate the data.

Another point is the article explains the importance of wide angle and yet none of the cameras listed have true wide angle capability. There are rumors apparently that the FIX housing for both the Nikon and Canon may soon have a true wide angle lens option but as of now they do not, the 15mm port only allows about a 90 to 100 degree FOV--that is not wide angle.

Some of the A series Canons actually have more versatility than the G10 since some of them can accept true wide angle wet lenses. Also the Fuji F series with Ikelite housings look promising. Unfortunately at this time there really are no good choices.

N

 

[HenrikBP]

Getting good underwater photos isn't cheap.

Diverrex; thanks. You're absolutely correct. I have no illusions that it would be. My hope when I started looking was to find a simple set-up, that for a "reasonable" cost (whatever that is) would get me started.

When I shop gear in general, I prefer to try to plan ahead to minimize having to buy gear with similar function several times - it gets too expensive in the long run. So I do a ton of research, weigh the options and try to buy gear that will work well for me now, at my current state of training/diving desire. Gear that then later on, without too big an expense, can be reconfigured to match growing skill and/or changing desire.

For instance; the G10 with Canon housing would fit my budget, get me started on UW photography without further investment ... for now I don't expect magazine quality images due both to my lacking skills (UW photography and otherwise) and to limitations to the gear (no lenses or strobes).

If I then within a year or so decide to take my UW photography further, I can either build onto that basic equipment with strobe(s) and macro lenses, or sell off the Canon housing and buy a 3rd party housing that would accommodate a wider range of lenses. That way I wouldn't at that time have the expense of buying another camera as well.

I know, in the big picture (no pun intended) of UW photography I guess these considerations are small change

That said, if I could find a less costly housing for the LX3, I'd buy it.

10Bar Underwater Housings for Panasonic LX3

A personal pet peeve; a company's web presence should not look like a print ad. Use the unlimited "page count" and linking capabilities of your website to provide detail photos, lengthy descriptions of capabilities, accessories etc. etc. (getting off soap-box now)

Nemrod; I disagree with you about RAW (- but do agree about getting the best possible shot in the first place). While the RAW format is currently a tad less user friendly than it could be, I think the benefit of having the "digital negative" greatly outweighs the downsides. But there has been very informative threads about that on here already, so ... peace

Henrik

 

[alcina]

If you just want something to start with, that can grow with you as you decide what you want to do, here's my suggstion...

Canon A series and Canon housing.
or
Canon G10 and Canon housing.

Both options will give you the opportunity to get nice images, shoot some vid, share what you're seeing. Both options are at a start price that should be in your budget. You can add extras as you go along - you do not need to buy everything at once even though we'd all love to do it that way. I'd save for a good strobe to add before anything else.

The add-on lens issue is an issue, but depending on how much diving you do and what your goals are, it may not be an immediate issue. And no camera has to be forever. You may find that you want to move to something different altogether before you add lenses, who knows. If you KNOW exactly the images you want to take, then make sure your choice supports that down the track.

Personally, I'd jump at either of the options I listed and get in the water You can spend months trying to decide between models or waiting for something new to come out.

segue...nem, I'm not seeing a Canon housing for the 590, is it just the Ike?

 

[diverrex]

Diverrex; thanks. You're absolutely correct. I have no illusions that it would be. My hope when I started looking was to find a simple set-up, that for a "reasonable" cost (whatever that is) would get me started.

When I shop gear in general, I prefer to try to plan ahead to minimize having to buy gear with similar function several times - it gets too expensive in the long run. So I do a ton of research, weigh the options and try to buy gear that will work well for me now, at my current state of training/diving desire. Gear that then later on, without too big an expense, can be reconfigured to match growing skill and/or changing desire.

For instance; the G10 with Canon housing would fit my budget, get me started on UW photography without further investment ... for now I don't expect magazine quality images due both to my lacking skills (UW photography and otherwise) and to limitations to the gear (no lenses or strobes).

If I then within a year or so decide to take my UW photography further, I can either build onto that basic equipment with strobe(s) and macro lenses, or sell off the Canon housing and buy a 3rd party housing that would accommodate a wider range of lenses. That way I wouldn't at that time have the expense of buying another camera as well.

Henrik,
All good thoughts, but let me caution you about one thing. One of the downsides of P&S's is how fast the models change, what is hot technology today will be discontinued in 2-3 years, along with its housings. I bought a two-week used G9 off ebay just as the G9 was being discontinued. It came with the Canon housing. I really didn't want the Canon housing due to its limitations but the housing had never been used and I was essentially getting the combination for the price of the camera alone ($500 for G9, OEM housing and extra battery) so I figured I'd play with the G9 in OEM housing for awhile before deciding what I wanted. Quickly I found out the Patima housing (which is what I really wanted) was becoming a rare commodity. Just as I was about to purchase the Patima housing I backed off, partly because I wasn't sure that was the route I wanted to take vs. perhaps DSLR, and also not wanting to put that much into a housing when the camera was now discontinued. Now it's almost impossible to find a Patima G9 housing. DSLR is a lot more expensive than a P&S but one big advantage is the bodies seem to stick around longer than a P&S and so do their housings.

I figure I'll still play with my G9 and Canon housing for another year or so, maybe when a G11 comes out I'll jump on that with a better housing, or finally go the DSLR route.

 

[Nemrod]

Ikelite only Alcina, the Canon housing are kinda chintzy anyways. Yes, Ikelite has a housing and yes I have both the Ikelite and Canon housings for ther 570 and consider now the Ikelite ultimately worth the extra money.

Underwater Housing for Canon A580iS & A590iS Cameras

Of topic but here is my Canon to Inon to Ikelite tray adapter:

There is no Canon chintzy housing for the A590IS.

N

 

[HenrikBP]

If you just want something to start with, <snip>
Personally, I'd jump at either of the options I listed and get in the water You can spend months trying to decide between models or waiting for something new to come out.

You're right - I do tend to sometimes spend a bit too much time "researching" where just jumping in and doing it would be the better choice

Henrik,
All good thoughts, but let me caution you about one thing. One of the downsides of P&S's is how fast the models change, what is hot technology today will be discontinued in 2-3 years, along with its housings.

Diverrex; good point about outdated gear. Almost makes you want to buy a "spare" camera, just to have one in case the camera floods. I hadn't thought of DSLR housings being around longer. But either way, DSLR is not for me right now - too big and too much $$.

Good thoughts guys. Thanks for taking the time.

Henrik

 

[Nemrod]

I did buy a spare, in fact I got two spares for a total cost for three cameras of well under 300 dollars, one was used on ebay, two were on closeout.

N, n to spares

 

[marcaumarc]

I have a powershot SD1000 with the canon housing. The camera is discontinued, but you can get the camera on ebay for $100 or less, the canon housing for maybe $170. You can probably ebay a decent strobe and still make it in at under $500. If you want photos that look decent, you will almost certainly want a strobe. A fisheye or wide angle wet lens would also be great for taking photos of big stuff like people or wrecks. Anyhow, maybe folks would disagree, but in many cases, I think you can take better pictures with a $100 P&S with a strobe than with a DSLR without a strobe. And I don't think RAW can help enough if you have no color (but blue) in your photo to begin with.