Commercial Permits on Maui (split off from Premier Scuba Maui)

[MauiScubaSteve]

Like it or not, the fact is you must have the proper permits to run a commercial charter boat in Molokini, whether it is snorkel, dive or both. If you are taking paying customers out to Molokini on a private boat without the proper permits you are breaking the law. This is a Marine Reserve and there are limited permits to limit the negative impact and hold the operators to a code of conduct. That is why I wonder what boat he does his Molokini dives from.

The Beach Parks are over used and parking is crowded. This Island has regulated commercial activity in the County Beach Parks, because the people don't want to be overrun with businessmen making a living off the taxpayers public parks. Rather than fly by night, many good ocean activity operations have played by the rules and offer more than enough services for the volume the parks can handle. That is why I wonder if he has permits for all the dive sites he advertises.

I'm not saying I know for a fact that Gerry is a fly by night law breaker, but his web site does not indicate he is an upstanding member of the legal ocean recreation community of Maui. I would have started an independent business here if I could have, but instead of breaking the law I have found employers that have the proper permits. If you want to do thing differently than is allowed on Maui, perhaps you should not be on Maui.

 

[Oside Jimc]

My questions would be; does he have proper permits to conduct business at all those shore dive sites and from what commercial charter boat with a permit does he dive Molokini??

Cry me a bucket full of tears..... :mooner:

 

[friscuba]

Cry me a bucket full of tears..... :mooner:

I know when I go to a doctor, I try to find one that isn't insured, it's even better if his degree is from somewhere in the Carribean.

When I go to restaurants, I look for one's with unlicensed kitchens and staff without food handlers certificates.

Diving off a boat with a commercial permit, commercial passenger registration or a licensed Coast Guard Captain on board at all times... screw that! I want unpermitted and underinsured when I'm paying for a good time!

 

[KrisB]

I know when I go to a doctor, I try to find one that isn't insured, it's even better if his degree is from somewhere in the Carribean.

When I go to restaurants, I look for one's with unlicensed kitchens and staff without food handlers certificates.

Diving off a boat with a commercial permit, commercial passenger registration or a licensed Coast Guard Captain on board at all times... screw that! I want unpermitted and underinsured when I'm paying for a good time!

Just so we're all on the same page, while the permit system for these sites verifies that the individual holds insurance to cover the County & State, their primary purpose is to limit commercial access.

There are other regulations that ensure your captain/vessel is licensed if operating commercially, and you won't find a current instructor for any agency I know of that doesn't hold liability insurance.

Basically, the County feels a need to regulate this industry for its own benefit.

As for the excuse that the beach parks are over-crowded... let's just say that somehow that's changing. This weekend at Ulua, there were plenty of spots to park even as late as 8:30/9:00. In fact, every time I went back to my car (before/between/after dives), there were several spots immediately available. For a Saturday/Sunday combination with excellent weather both underwater an on the beach, this was amazing.

Bottom line: that situation isn't good for anybody here -- if there are really that few people interested in going down to a beach that has garnered some great press about being one of the best beaches on Maui, the economy is slowing to a not-so-steady crawl... and that will have a filter-down effect on everybody.

We can point fingers on this several directions -- the county's new CORA rules, the TVR issue, the recession hitting the rest of the country... but the bottom line is that the County and State don't seem to be doing anything to help it.

 

[Oside Jimc]

I know when I go to a doctor, I try to find one that isn't insured, it's even better if his degree is from somewhere in the Carribean.

When I go to restaurants, I look for one's with unlicensed kitchens and staff without food handlers certificates.

Diving off a boat with a commercial permit, commercial passenger registration or a licensed Coast Guard Captain on board at all times... screw that! I want unpermitted and underinsured when I'm paying for a good time!

Relity in the diving industry is that insurance is only there to protect the shop. If anyone ever actually reads the liability release you sign it is easy to see that the shop can engage in anything short of criminal activity and you, the diver, have no recourse.

So to make sure I have this right, for me to dive on Maui I have to go through an OP that has the payola or political connections to get a permit that is not available to anybody else to protect their domain?

Well with travel costs going through the roof, and Hawaii being one the the highest cost locations I dive, I can see a day coming soon where reality is going to come crashing down and the industry on Maui will need to band together to fight the forces that desire that Maui be an exclusive, petty domain of a few rich developers and landowners. While competition exists everywhere, this foolish, public badmouthing seems unique to Maui and is not good for your livelyhood (Reminds me of a situation in NorCal a few years ago where bad blood between fishing guides eventually drove the clients to other locales, after all, I spend big $$ on vacation to enjoy myself!). After you poison the waters and drive all but the few resort divers to friendlier destinations let me know how well your new career at the 7-11 (OK, ABC store) finances your diving lifestyle.

 

[Oside Jimc]

BTW, you local guys, I'll be there in 10 days, want to have a reasonable, friendly discussion over a cold one? No problem, send me a PM.

I am not saying what I have to start BS, just hope to make you guys aware how this petty bickering looks to an outsider

 

[NadMat]

I may be wrong, but from what I read of another thread on the subject I believe you as a private diver can dive from shore or boat sites but that shops and guide services have to be permitted and are limited. Someone please correct if I am wrong on this.

Relity in the diving industry is that insurance is only there to protect the shop. If anyone ever actually reads the liability release you sign it is easy to see that the shop can engage in anything short of criminal activity and you, the diver, have no recourse.

So to make sure I have this right, for me to dive on Maui I have to go through an OP that has the payola or political connections to get a permit that is not available to anybody else to protect their domain?

Well with travel costs going through the roof, and Hawaii being one the the highest cost locations I dive, I can see a day coming soon where reality is going to come crashing down and the industry on Maui will need to band together to fight the forces that desire that Maui be an exclusive, petty domain of a few rich developers and landowners. While competition exists everywhere, this foolish, public badmouthing seems unique to Maui and is not good for your livelyhood (Reminds me of a situation in NorCal a few years ago where bad blood between fishing guides eventually drove the clients to other locales, after all, I spend big $$ on vacation to enjoy myself!). After you poison the waters and drive all but the few resort divers to friendlier destinations let me know how well your new career at the 7-11 (OK, ABC store) finances your diving lifestyle.

 

[friscuba]

There are other regulations that ensure your captain/vessel is licensed if operating commercially, and you won't find a current instructor for any agency I know of that doesn't hold liability insurance.

Basically, I agree on most counts when it comes to Maui County over-regulating the industry, but as far as using boats without appropriate permits goes... there's a fair amount of that going on, at least here on the Big Island, I suspect it happens on Maui fairly frequently too.

It's one thing if a shore operator is putting people on a legitimate commercial vessel, another if they're taking their boat and pretending it's one. I own a boat, I'm an Instructor... I can "insure" my boat for a few hundred a year, and have my own professional insurance for the diving end... and that'd do nothing for me if anything actually happened if I was using the boat as a commercial vessel. Since I try to play by the rules we're talking a who new ball game, my insurance bill alone runs 8 grand a year to cover passengers and crew on and in the water, and that's for a 6 pack. Having a Captain on board costs a whole lot more. The legit guys have a lot of expenses to deal with.

Halemano raised concerns about the possiblility of the vessel being a private one and was responded to with "cry me a bucket", that's what I was responding to.

 

[friscuba]

Relity in the diving industry is that insurance is only there to protect the shop. If anyone ever actually reads the liability release you sign it is easy to see that the shop can engage in anything short of criminal activity and you, the diver, have no recourse.

So to make sure I have this right, for me to dive on Maui I have to go through an OP that has the payola or political connections to get a permit that is not available to anybody else to protect their domain?

Well with travel costs going through the roof, and Hawaii being one the the highest cost locations I dive, I can see a day coming soon where reality is going to come crashing down and the industry on Maui will need to band together to fight the forces that desire that Maui be an exclusive, petty domain of a few rich developers and landowners. While competition exists everywhere, this foolish, public badmouthing seems unique to Maui and is not good for your livelyhood (Reminds me of a situation in NorCal a few years ago where bad blood between fishing guides eventually drove the clients to other locales, after all, I spend big $$ on vacation to enjoy myself!). After you poison the waters and drive all but the few resort divers to friendlier destinations let me know how well your new career at the 7-11 (OK, ABC store) finances your diving lifestyle.

The reality is, that even though there are releases, if there's actual negligence on the operator's part they will lose in court. It happens, it's happend in Hawaii a time or two the last few years.

I appreciate that this is an expensive hobby and that competition is good for both the industry and the customer, but some competition doesn't always play by the rules everyone else does. If a provider is willing to cut corners when it comes to legal permits, there's no telling where else they may be cutting corners. As a customer you have choices to make, but don't assume that because someone's got a business card that you are covered if they screw up.

 

[Oside Jimc]

Halemano raised concerns about the possiblility of the vessel being a private one and was responded to with "cry me a bucket", that's what I was responding to.

My comment was in response to someone I view as having an abundance of sour grapes, the type which is only good for making whine.

Ponits I DO agree on are Coast Guard certification and mis-reprenentation of being a legit commercial op when in fact you are not. If you are operating as an indepentent, private guide / instructor that requires TOTAL disclosure so the consumer can make an informed choice.

In retrospect my initial comments were somewhat inappropriate.