Cold-water vs warm-water training

[oreocookie]

As someone who was trained in Canada all the way up through to IDCS, I think that the conditions and instructional methodology inherent in diving there translates to people who can dive and teach just about anywhere.

Frankly, I have found that people coming from temperate climes transition much easier to diving in warm water than vice versa. And yes, I believe it makes you more versatile.

Meanwhile, no matter where you decide you want to train, do some research on the shops/Instructors/Course Directors in your area before making a decision on who to train with. Don't rush into it.

FWIW,

Well, looks like I'm starting to lean towards doing the course here, partly because I'll probably be working here for a least a little while after finishing the course, possibly until I'm ready for the IDC (if I decide to go that far). An added issue in picking a shop locally though is language, unfortunately, meaning that unless I want to do my training in french (which I don't), I have to write off 2 of the 4 shops on the island and most of the close off-island ones too. I have experience with both of the remaining two, but only gear experience with my current shop of choice so I'm looking into their training staff and how their courses are run. I don't expect to start the course before May or June if I do it here, so I have time to figure out who has the best course/experience for me.

 

[DevonDiver]

I think that the DM course in your home location (cold water) is beneficial, because that gives you the core diving and supervisory'leadership skills under demanding conditions - students/customers will have hassle with bulky kit, low viz etc.

However, one of the benefits (often overlooked) of warm-water diving is that you can achieve a much greater volume of dives in a given timespan (i.e. during the duration of a DM course). A typical 'busy' pro in Asia will conduct 4-5 dives a day, 6 days a week. In cold-water locations, that average is more like 2-3 dives per day, 4-5 days per week. Experience counts... and you'll get more experience and exposure in a warm water location. The quality of that experience is determined entirely by you, and how you approach your dives.

Then do your IDC in a busy, mass-market holiday location (if that is where you dream of eventually working). You'll more quickly get to grips with the pace of workload, the 'quality' of customer and the realities of working in a high volume market. IDC is about learning to be an instructor, not a diver (you should have that already).. so there are benefits to working in an environment that demands high instructor professionalism and ability to manage courses and student flow. Also, importantly, you'll start networking and building useful contacts - which are essential for subsequently finding work.

I've managed a few dive shops in Asia. When employing staff, I do respect those with cold-water experience/backgrounds, but having experience in the immediate region and that type of market is more important. Most important is whether those potential staff come with a recommendation from someone I know and respect.

I've also seen more than a few cold-water background instructor struggle when transitioning into warm-water mass-market locations. Whilst undoubtedly highly professional, they sometimes lacked the sales, customer service and positive approach needed in those locations.

Likewise, for DMs... the ability to help a student with the finer points of mask clearing with a thick hood and gloves is fabulous... but what customers (and employers) in tropical areas actually want are skills like fine-detail observation and local marine life knowledge... so that you can spot and point-out for customers those little treats like frogfish and ghost.pipefish.

 

[TMHeimer]

you[/I], and how you approach your dives.


Yes. At our shop it's more like May-Nov. one OW course a week, thus 4 dives a week plus any advanced weekend courses here & there. Probably the norm in many northern locales as students and instructors usually have "day jobs".

 

[Quero]

I would support getting your training in the worst possible conditions that safety permits. Warm water conditions are much easier and make a simple transition. Good luck.

As someone who was trained in Canada all the way up through to IDCS, I think that the conditions and instructional methodology inherent in diving there translates to people who can dive and teach just about anywhere.

While I do agree that the conditions are different and that people with the psychological and physical fortitude to get into cold water will find it relatively easier to get into warm water afterward as opposed to those who are used to warm water having to get into cold water, I do not believe there is any significant difference in "instructional methodology" that makes Canada-based dive pros any better prepared to teach than those who train elsewhere.

Well, looks like I'm starting to lean towards doing the course here, partly because I'll probably be working here for a least a little while after finishing the course, possibly until I'm ready for the IDC (if I decide to go that far).

This, on the other hand, makes sense. It's helpful to do your internship in the area where you hope to be working after you become a pro. The rhythm of the shop, the course setup, the expectations of the customers, the typical scheduling--those are all different where students and divers are "weekend warriors" taking and conducting courses in bite-sized chunks as compared to places where instructors and students are engaged in intensive training and diving over many days in a row. If you are planning on working in Canada after you finish, it's logical to get your intial training in Canada.

 

[oreocookie]

If you are planning on working in Canada after you finish, it's logical to get your intial training in Canada.

This makes sense. The problem that I'm trying to wrap my mind around is that I think I would ultimately want to work down south (partly because I don't really want to stay here, due to politics, among other things) so doing the training there would be logical. I realize, though, that in the Caribbean (and probably most any tropical resort area) DMs are a dime a dozen and being at least OWSI gives you a better chance of employment. So then I'd be coming back here unless I decide to do the IDC right away, which I'm not ready to commit to; I can see myself assisting with classes but I can't see myself teaching them yet. Then I come back here and have no experience helping a student who has trouble doing a mask remove/replace because of gloves that are too big, eg.

I guess if it comes down to where I want to work vs where I'm likely to work, I should do the training where I'm more like to get a job. Then I can get experience until I've got something on my resume that puts me above everybody else who wants to work down south.

 

[Quero]

To be honest, new OWSIs in a tropical place are more likely to be doing dozens upon dozens of DSDs rather than teaching, for example, Rescue classes, so their induction into teaching is likely to be gradual anyway.

If you do your DM followed soon after by the IDC in a tropical place, as a junior instructor, in addition to DSDs, you may be called on to assist in OW and other courses, especially if the student groups are large or need to be split for the in-water sessions. If you are worried about gaining experience before going south, you should think of how long it will actually take you to get this experience. How many summers will you require in Canada as a DM before you take the next step and do the IDC? How many classes are you likely to be able to assist with each summer? Now how long will that same experience take you to garner in a tropical location? This is one of the points Andy is making in post 12.

 

[oreocookie]

Congratulations, you've put me back on the fence.

If you are worried about gaining experience before going south, you should think of how long it will actually take you to get this experience.

I guess I wasn't too clear when I said

Then I can get experience until I've got something on my resume that puts me above everybody else who wants to work down south.

I don't know how hard it would be to get a job in a resort area with just a DM card. I may be completely off in thinking it might be easier here (at least if I did the course here it would be). I'm really comparing having a job here vs not down there. I wasn't necessarily thinking of the DM experience to go on my resume, but any other skills or certs that I may pick up while DMing which may be useful.

How many classes are you likely to be able to assist with each summer? Now how long will that same experience take you to garner in a tropical location? This is one of the points Andy is making in post 12.

The large volume and constant flow of students and divers down south was one of my main reasons for looking into doing a course there. I realize that I can get the same amount of experience in a much shorter time period there, but I also wonder if I'll be able to get my foot in the door if I don't do the IDC right away, especially if the shop I train with doesn't have a job opening for me and I need (or want) to look elsewhere. Should I plan to do the IDC right away or soon after DM and then make the final decision on it when I'm finishing the DM internship? Or... have I been reading bad posts when I see "do the IDC if you want to get a job"?

 

[Quero]

Sorry about putting you back on the fence--I guess you need to define exactly what you want to achieve ultimately and then decide on the best route to get there.

It may depend on the specific country in which you would like to work. For example, here in Thailand, it's virtually impossible for any foreigner to get a job DMing.We've got more than enough locals who can do the grunt-work of DMing (tank-jockey-type stuff) and even for guiding dives there are plenty of locals with superlative dive skills and sharp eyes. The advantages of hiring locals for DM jobs are many (lower wage expectations, no need for work permits, employers' desire to support the local workforce, etc.) and the disadvantages of hiring non-nationals for these jobs are clear. This means that in order for foreigners to get work here, they have to be instructors, even if most of the work they do is guiding dives (such as on liveaboards). The big advantages of hiring foreigners to work as instructors and tour directors are their understanding of customer expectations and their language skills. Beyond that, employing foreigners is a headache because of bureaucractic requirements and some foreign dive staffers' attitudes of superiority and entitlement.

If you were thinking of coming here, for purely logistical reasons, I'd say do your DM + internship followed quite soon by your IDC. But it could easily be different where you are thinking of going, so it's worthwhile at least looking into the practicalities of getting work before you decide.

 

[oreocookie]

Thanks for the insights, Quero. If I think about it, I may have been on the fence the whole time, just trying to figure out which side has greener grass, but the grass on one side is covered in snow. I guess I'll have to take a closer look at logistics for places I might want to work and go from there. Ultimately, I'd like to work somewhere warm, and in that respect, I sort of feel that working here would be settling, in a sense, and hopefully temporary. I see pros and cons to both, so hopefully a bit more research will tip the scales.

 

[DevonDiver]

I don't know how hard it would be to get a job in a resort area with just a DM card....The large volume and constant flow of students and divers down south was one of my main reasons for looking into doing a course there....I also wonder if I'll be able to get my foot in the door if I don't do the IDC right away, especially if the shop I train with doesn't have a job opening for me.... Should I plan to do the IDC right away or soon after DM and then make the final decision on it when I'm finishing the DM internship? Or... have I been reading bad posts when I see "do the IDC if you want to get a job"?

You need to talk to individual dive centres about this, in a range of locations to ascertain what they can offer regards employment. To give some examples, from my own experience;

On Koh Tao, Thailand, there were some openings for DMs post-qualification, but these were typically reserved for exceptional candidates and those who had a diverse range of language skills. Some of the more entrepreneurial DM graduates, who couldn't get initial salaried/regular work, would work free-lance, being on call to a selection of dive centres when they had 'over-flow'. Over time they'd establish great relationships with certain dive centres and be 'in-line' for a regular position when it became available. In either case (regular or freelance) the only pay was commission based - XXX baht per tank (pay per customer per tank). Bonuses were given for 'con-ed' sales of further training. In addition, many DMs/Instructors would have commission deals with dive retail shops - so they were actively involved in selling kit to customers. A hard working DM, with good sales skills, could earn just enough to live a frugal lifestyle. However, more than a few had to return home penniless during monsoon season, especially if they weren't expert at budgeting/saving or couldn't adjust to the realities of poverty living (i.e. treated it like a holiday).

Don't under-estimate the benefit of languages - this is the single biggest differentiator between potential employees. Night-school class/es in alternative languages will do more for your CV's attractiveness than any amount of compressor maintenance, regulator servicing etc courses..

In Mabul/Sipidan, Malaysia, I worked for a dive centre that usually offered work to their DM graduates. However, that work was unpaid. The DMs received free board and lodging. They lived a very humble life, relying on tips (or savings) for the minimal day-to-day spending needed. Instructors were paid a decent salary (by dive industry standards), but were expected to work incredibly hard for that - typically 1 day off every 2 weeks, and a full week off every 6 months (for visa extension trips).

Don't under-estimate the frugality of the dive industry lifestyle. You have to truly love scuba diving to maintain any sort of sustained motivation; given the high workload, long hours, physical demands and lack of financial reward. You're being paid virtually nothing, but interacting daily with customers who are spending like crazy on their holidays. Some mental fortitude is needed to bolster your own morale when faced with those realities. Likewise, financial prudence and a large element of self-discipline is required to avoid the temptations that will otherwise rapidly bankrupt you and end your scuba career dreams prematurely.

Relationships can be a serious problem also. The dive industry can initially seem quite appealing to a single person - lots of interaction with holiday makers of the opposite sex. However, sooner or later most people get lonely under those circumstances - relationships are ultimately brief, as most potential partners are just passing through (on holiday). That can be soul-destroying, especially if you meet someone you like. I know some very lonely dive professionals (although they might not admit that publicly).

In the Philippines, the majority of the population speak decent English. Most of the tourist market is English speaking (USA, Oz/NZ or European). That means local DMs are inevitably selected to DM. A high proportion of instructors are local here also. The other tourist market is Chinese or Korean speaking. There's plenty enough instructors with those language skills also. Virtually no chance of DM work here... it's hard enough for instructors. Most of the expat instructors here teach at a technical diving level. Very competitive employment market. The work permit situation (very, very expensive) also prohibits many employment opportunities. Again, most of the expats working here on resident, not work, visas (i.e. married to a Filipina or bringing substantial investment with them/operating a business of some sort).

Don't under-estimate the expense of living overseas. On minimal pay, the cost of a work permit (if not supplied as part of a contract) is crippling. Many DMs or instructors will work illegally. I've seen this happen in (Koh Tao) Thailand and Malaysia. Not only is it criminal (with repercussions if caught), it's also stressful. Even working illegally is expensive - as you need to renew tourist visa, do 'border runs' etc etc. You can also get screwed over by anyone who has a grudge against you; including unscrupulous employers who might be tempted to treat you as 'slave labour'.