Cold Water Reg Suggestions?

[KD8NPB]

OK, since you'd like to advance the issue:
1) D1 1st and 2nd stage parts are $35. (I don't know where you got $70)
2) The service interval is for HOG regulators is every two years (as opposed to Apeks once a year for the 2nd stage, a 'lite' service (IP and filter annually for the 1st) and 2 years on the first)
3) Price for a HOG D1 first (cold water) and second is $280.

If you'd like to give us your service prices for the annual 2nd stage, 'lite' first stange and bi-annual 1st we can do a real comparison. .


Are you sure you want to continue ?


Oh and I forgot that $280 includes the LP hose. . .

1.) I ballparked the parts since we're not a HOG dealer. Dive Right In Scuba sells the 1st stage for $19.99, 2nd stage for $14.99. $20+15+15 = $50 + tax. This is not an expense incurred with an Apeks regulator bought from an authorized dealer.

2.) The service interval according to Aqualung is 1st year inspection, 2nd year overhaul, 3rd year inspection, 4th year overhaul, etc. Both inspections and overhauls need to be documented in the annual service & inspection record to keep the limited lifetime warranty and the regulator service agreement in effect.

3.) Northeast Scuba Supply was selling the made in the UK 2012 Apeks XTX50 / DS4 for $369.99.

The $369.99 includes the LP hose. $370 - $280 = $90 difference. Aka, two free rebuilds that can be accomplished at any one of the thousands of Aqualung/Apeks dealers in the world. Do you expect to own the regulator for more than 4 years? Do you expect to follow an inspection/rebuild schedule? If this is the case, Apeks is the better choice due to the free parts for life program.

 

[spectrum]

"Free" parts for life or not is really backgound noise. It's coupled with the inescapable paid service visit that makes for the total maintenance costs.

The real benefit of these new comers is their general availablity of parts for the public. If you are inclined to self service this liberates you to save some real money.

If these newcommers were building a nominal parts allowance into their costs and making users jump through hoops to get parts they wouldn't exist.

Pete

 

[JohnN]

1.) I ballparked the parts since we're not a HOG dealer. Dive Right In Scuba sells the 1st stage for $19.99, 2nd stage for $14.99. $20+15+15 = $50 + tax. This is not an expense incurred with an Apeks regulator bought from an authorized dealer.

2.) The service interval according to Aqualung is 1st year inspection, 2nd year overhaul, 3rd year inspection, 4th year overhaul, etc. Both inspections and overhauls need to be documented in the annual service & inspection record to keep the limited lifetime warranty and the regulator service agreement in effect.

3.) Northeast Scuba Supply was selling the made in the UK 2012 Apeks XTX50 / DS4 for $369.99.

The $369.99 includes the LP hose. $370 - $280 = $90 difference. Aka, two free rebuilds that can be accomplished at any one of the thousands of Aqualung/Apeks dealers in the world. Do you expect to own the regulator for more than 4 years? Do you expect to follow an inspection/rebuild schedule? If this is the case, Apeks is the better choice due to the free parts for life program.

1) The service intervals came from the Apeks web site:

Q.​	How often should my Apeks' regulator be serviced?
A.​	The 2nd Stage should be serviced annually. The 1st Stage should have the intermediate pressure checked and filter changed annually and be fully serviced every 2 years. Apeks Frequently Asked Questions

2) The Apeks XTX50 / DS4 is out of stock at Northeast Scuba Supply. Did you mean to use the O2 variant for an additional $50 ? I purchased a D1 second and D1 first on Black Thursday for $204. Do I get to use that price in the comparison ?

3) You still haven't told us what your published service prices are for the annual 2nd stage service, the 'lite' 1st stage service or the bi-annual 1st stage service. Parts may be free, labor certainly isn't. Since you want do drive down this road, we need the facts.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What if it doesn't need an inspection or overhaul? Why pay labor if everything is fine and there's no creep, freeflow, etc.? And what is the labor charge on the free parts? And the charge for the inspection? What is the charge if the owner decides to forego the inspection and just do the rebuild at say 26 months.

And can the owner take a class that authorizes them to do their own. Anytime. They decide the service interval. What happens then? And buy the parts? I know you can find Apeks parts but is every Apeks dealer authorized to sell parts to any owner who wants them? And will they?

 

[sock]

For cold water, the Dive Rite regs work amazing having used them in Canadian cave diving, commercial diving, ice diving, and other types of technical diving. Both new type (xt) and the older type(3100) with environmental protection kit work great.

 

[KD8NPB]

1) The service intervals came from the Apeks web site:

2) The Apeks XTX50 / DS4 is out of stock at Northeast Scuba Supply. Did you mean to use the O2 variant for an additional $50 ? I purchased a D1 second and D1 first on Black Thursday for $204. Do I get to use that price in the comparison ?

3) You still haven't told us what your published service prices are for the annual 2nd stage service, the 'lite' 1st stage service or the bi-annual 1st stage service. Parts may be free, labor certainly isn't. Since you want do drive down this road, we need the facts.

1. Apeks UK or Aqualung.com? The free parts for life program is a program provided by Aqualung, not Apeks, thus, we follow Aqualung's stipulations listed in the product manual.

2. No, but you'll easily find those kinda deals at your local diveshop. We'll gladly sell you a discounted regulator, but we don't do emerchant sales... actually, that published price is a violation of Aqualung's retail policies. It must be unpublished to be compliant.

3. I don't know what other shops charge, but we charge $25 for inspection, $75 for a rebuild.

HOG makes fantastic products that are aimed at the diy kinda guy...but with that being said, you are ONLY allowed to do the rebuild if you have completed a service course, or you have technical dive training. Not everyone wants to deal with the time and tool commitment to service their own regulators. Some people don't trust themselves.

Some just want to dive.

---------- Post added February 22nd, 2013 at 05:16 PM ----------

What if it doesn't need an inspection or overhaul? Why pay labor if everything is fine and there's no creep, freeflow, etc.? And what is the labor charge on the free parts? And the charge for the inspection? What is the charge if the owner decides to forego the inspection and just do the rebuild at say 26 months.

And can the owner take a class that authorizes them to do their own. Anytime. They decide the service interval. What happens then? And buy the parts? I know you can find Apeks parts but is every Apeks dealer authorized to sell parts to any owner who wants them? And will they?

Q1. What if it doesn't need an inspection or overhaul? Why pay labor if everything is fine and there's no creep, freeflow, etc.?

A1. Because a service was completed that takes time, training, and financial investment. I could have spent those 10-15 minutes doing something else.

Q2. What is the charge if the owner decides to forego the inspection and just do the rebuild at say 26 months.

A2. The regulator is disenrolled from the free-parts-for-life program.

Q3. And can the owner take a class that authorizes them to do their own. Anytime. They decide the service interval. What happens then? And buy the parts? I know you can find Apeks parts but is every Apeks dealer authorized to sell parts to any owner who wants them? And will they?

A3. No, only authorized service shops may complete service. Selling parts is a violation of Aqualung / Apeks retail terms.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Actually not true. You're supposed to take the course. It is highly recommended as these are not "copies" and there are things that make servicing easier that you find out in the class. But you don't need to take it to buy the kits.

And more and more I am seeing non techies who do want to make the investment in time and tools when they see how much those free parts cost them on the front end. And when they realize they are not limited to any schedule except their own. So the advertised regs would not be covered anyway since the price violated the AL retail policies?

 

[elan]

Guys , come on, the point with being able officially servicing the reg is sort of mute. You need to invest another 1.5k in classes and tools to be able to service it officially if you are only a rec diver using that money you can service an single set for at least 20 years

 

[ams511]

Why are you guys still fighting over HOG? Apeks are great regs, there is no doubt however they are expensive. John at NESS is posting a special price which is well below the normal selling price. You cannot use that for a general comparison between HOG and Apeks. The HOG is an Apeks copy myth has been debunked. If HOG were truly a copy would not Aqualung fight them in court? Some people claim Apeks copied Scubapro, as Jim mentioned there are only a few ways to make a barrel-poppet second stage.

Parts are overpriced. I cannot imagine it costs more than a dollar to make a standard parts kit for a second stage and two dollars for a first stage. So charging $15 or $30 dollars for a kit is a rip-off.

 

[dlofting]

You can forget about sending them out for the service here. Especially cross border. That option is not really economically viable. Even inside Ontario it will add another $30-40 to the service bill.
Just get what you can service locally.

According to the Edge/Hog website there is a dealer in Oakville and one in Kitchener.....just wanted you to have all the information to make an informed decision