Unknown Coasties searching for missing diver - Pompano Beach, Florida

[Pavao]

FINS are … not critical.

A malfunctioning BCD is a cause for alarm and the dive should be aborted, but it's not a sudden threat to life (Only in Rec Diving, for Tech Diving this is a MUCH more dangerous scenario). It could become one quickly, but it's not one yet (Hence the quick disconnect, mouth inflater, dump pockets). A sudden regulator or valve failure is an immediate danger which has to be remedied in haste.

I’d rethink that.

Without fins, poorly performing fins or poor finning technique, you won’t be in much haste. If I have a reg malfunction, I’d be relying heavily on my fins to propel me to my buddy for a working reg.
A BCD malfunction will also rely on my fins to get me to surface in a controlled ascent and keep me on the surface, even in a malfunction resulting in a uncontrolled ascent they’ll serve as “breaks” to slow me down by flaring them.

 

[Blackwater Hunter]

I’d rethink that.

Without fins, poorly performing fins or poor finning technique, you won’t be in much haste. If I have a reg malfunction, I’d be relying heavily on my fins to propel me to my buddy for a working reg.
A BCD malfunction will also rely on my fins to get me to surface in a controlled ascent and keep me on the surface, even in a malfunction resulting in a uncontrolled ascent they’ll serve as “breaks” to slow me down by flaring them.

That's only if the regulator stages and/or the tanks fail. Im making the point that the regulator stages and the tank are the most important gear you have. This is not claiming they're failproof, nothing is. I want to stress that what failures at depth will kill you in the quickest amount of time. If you can breathe but you're bottomed out on the bottom of say 40 ft and divers can easily get to you, your chances of rescue are high.

Knowing what to do if your regulator fails, or it pops out, are critical skills. Like you said about fins, they compound the danger if they're small or missing because you can't move to your buddy for a working reg. Honestly your own octopus is a better reg for YOU to use in cases of regulator failure. The dangers are all compounded by smaller mishaps like lost mask, lost fin, BCD failure, etc. @Pavao you're absolutely correct here. The loss of a fin or both made the regulator failing much more dangerous. Any of those minor mishaps should end the dive, but unlike the SCUBA failures, your chances of making it to the surface are pretty darn good. A badly panicked diver from a regulator failure is already a huge danger for them and everyone trying to help. Panic is what kills the most.

Forgetting to open your air cylinder like what probably happened here (or it was closed inadvertently) is already worse than jumping in with nothing except a tank held by the valve and a reg in your mouth. Still though, you always fill your BCD about half way before striding off or flipping over. This is even considering you failed to test both regulators, filling the BCD would have confirmed that the air wasn't on.

 

[Allen-1]

I don't think I agree with "Still though, you always fill your BCD about half way before striding off or flipping over".

If I'm diving with a buddy, and we've agreed that we'll start on the surface and confirm readiness before descending, then yes, I'll put some air in my BCD. If we've decided that that's not our plan, or I'm diving without a buddy, I'll go in with an almost empty BCD for a negative entry.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Still though, you always fill your BCD about half way before striding off or flipping over. This is even considering you failed to test both regulators, filling the BCD would have confirmed that the air wasn't on.

Why? For example, most of my dives are drift dives and I almost always enter the water hot ... meaning zero air in my BCD. In Southeast Florida, frequently the surface currents are quite different than the currents at depth. In order to hit the target, be it a reef or wreck, you want to get in and get down fast. Thus the hot drops.

Now with that said, I have meticulously tested my air and my BCD/wing. I have all confidence they are both working properly. And in the extremely unlikely case they are not (maybe someone accidentally turned my air off right before I entered?), I can both reach my valve to turn my air back on in seconds and I always dive with a 40 cf pony.

To say you should "always fill your BCD half way before striding off of flipping over" is an over generalization. Not always and for me, almost never.

 

[Blackwater Hunter]

I don't think I agree with "Still though, you always fill your BCD about half way before striding off or flipping over".

If I'm diving with a buddy, and we've agreed that we'll start on the surface and confirm readiness before descending, then yes, I'll put some air in my BCD. If we've decided that that's not our plan, or I'm diving without a buddy, I'll go in with an almost empty BCD for a negative entry.

I mean this guy DID have his brother with him so I assume that he was his buddy, and the negative entry was what sank him. I have a feeling his tank was ON when he was getting ready, and someone turned it off, thinking it was off.

That is pure speculation on my part and is not to be taken as fact whatsoever here because that implicates a party, but it CAN happen. Misadventure incidents like this are frustrating because you don't learn anything from it. Check, recheck, recheck again, recheck again again...isn't learning anything. It's now paranoid validation. "Lefty Loosey, Righty Tighty" for such a scenario is the best thing to learn....for the boat hands.

This is all assuming the mother is correct and these two brothers truly were very experienced divers.

 

[Blackwater Hunter]

Why? For example, most of my dives are drift dives and I almost always enter the water hot ... meaning zero air in my BCD. In Southeast Florida, frequently the surface currents are quite different than the currents at depth. In order to hit the target, be it a reef or wreck, you want to get in and get down fast. Thus the hot drops.

Now with that said, I have meticulously tested my air and my BCD/wing. I have all confidence they are both working properly. And in the extremely unlikely case they are not (maybe someone accidentally turned my air off right before I entered?), I can both reach my valve to turn my air back in seconds on and I always dive with a 40 cf pony.

Yo say you should "always fill your BCD half way before striding off of flipping over" is an over generalization. Not always and for me, almost never.

Meant in the context of buddy dives in low currents (which now I know that was not the case). Apologies. Apparently they were diving in 6 to 7ft seas which is not ideal. They would all have to have been going in hot. Honestly with those conditions, they shouldn't have altogether. That's pretty rough.

 

[Pavao]

I’m just trying to point out to you there are a lot more failures that can happen than you’re seeing right now, and tried demonstrating fins are indeed a critical part of your gear by illustrating some modes of failure which would make that more clear to you, I’ve failed.

It’s not that you’re wrong, it’s just that you’re only seeing part of the picture.

. Honestly your own octopus is a better reg for YOU to use in cases of regulator failure.

This is a good example, here, you are only seeing the primary second stage failure and concluding the back up second stage (octopus) is the salvation, this is true only for the scenarios where the primary 2nd was the ONLY part that failed. There are several failures which would hinder the entire system unusable, or deplete your entire gas supply fast, very fast.

Sitting on the bottom of the ocean waiting for rescue is a brave strategy.

 

[FF / EMT]

Why are you guys questioning and making assumptions in a condolences thread.
Unbelievable!

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Why are you guys questioning and making assumptions in a condolences thread.
Unbelievable!

This is in the "Accidents, Incidents and Near Misses" forum. That is what this forum is for.

 

[Blackwater Hunter]

I’m just trying to point out to you there are a lot more failures that can happen than you’re seeing right now, and tried demonstrating fins are indeed a critical part of your gear by illustrating some modes of failure which would make that more clear to you, I’ve failed.

It’s not that you’re wrong, it’s just that you’re only seeing part of the picture.



This is a good example, here, you are only seeing the primary second stage failure and concluding the back up second stage (octopus) is the salvation, this is true only for the scenarios where the primary 2nd was the ONLY part that failed. There are several failures which would hinder the entire system unusable, or deplete your entire gas supply fast, very fast.

Sitting on the bottom of the ocean waiting for rescue is a brave strategy.

The part of the picture I am showing is just the importance the scuba gear itself. That's it. It's not the entire kit. It doesn't erase the other threats. It's ONLY about the regulator and the tank, which I've been on because the alleged topic of him jumping with his air off was a fatal error for obvious reasons. Just ignore the rest. Don't broaden the scope I've established. Breathing keeps you alive. Anything that disrupts that can and will kill you. So, gas on, regulator on, octopus on. You can breathe underwater now. You can't swim, but you're still alive. If you had ALL your gear on and the air isn't on, you're dead.

It's just stupidly simple...Turn on the air, breathe. Some SCUBA divers fail this simple task.