Coast Guard Thread

[Wildcard]

sticks and stones little boy, sticks and stones....

 

[Firefyter]

Sticks and stones? Where did I call you a name? I simply pointed out, with facts, that your rant was uninformed and malicious, and questioned the reasons why. I guess if "sticks and stones" is the best you can do.......

 

[Wildcard]

Fire fighters and there fragle little egos! LMAO.... From one of the departments Im involved with. "Good news, the budget didn't get cut this year so we can get the new training room tables, blah blah blah." These tables were three years old and in perfict condition but it was a money grab... Or! We need this new engine, w must have it to save homes with our limited man power, $175,000 later, it can not respond becouse it is not approved as a first attack engine.....
Once again, this is a thread about the coast guard in Hawaii, why are you even here except to defend your job and ego?????????

 

[Charlie99]

well, if the three mile thing is so, then that explains why the commercial captains are saying to call the fire department! And if you are floating out here, you welcome them and their toys.

Or maybe it's the same sort of thing I've noticed in Massachusetts. My summer home overlooks a busy section of the approach from Buzzards Bay into New Bedford. Since 1998 we've called in 5 cases boaters in distress. The 4 handled by the locals (Fire Department Rescue and the Harbormaster) were taken care of rapidly and efficiently. The one case handled by the Coast Guard was poorly handled.

The Fire Dept and Habormaster are experienced people with lots of time on the water. Many of the CG in the small inshore boats, and standing the late night watches at the local Coast Guard Group are in their late teen or early 20's and have much less experience and maturity.

.

------------ end of comment. The rest is just the details of my experience with CG -

IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY NIGHT. (I've always wanted to legitimately start a story that way! )After seeing a boater signalling with flares from only about 300 yards offshore, my wife called 911. She was handed off to the Coast Guard because it was clear from her description that she had spotted a 19' boat and 5 px, including 2 young children, for which the Coast Guard had an active search in progress, and was directing the activity of multiple agencies/boats in the area. My wife had noted a lot of strange activity on the other side of the 2 mile wide bay in front of our house and had earlier that evening monitored channel 16 to see what was going on. The missing boat was from a harbor about 5 miles SW (upwind that night), and the search was centered on an area about 2 or 3 miles SW of us.

For reasons never fully explained, the coast guard ignored my wife's report of the boat 300 yards in front of our house. After 30 minutes, the boater seemed to have run out of flares, but all of the search boats were still searching a few miles away, oblivious to the boater in distress (engine out, anchor wasn't holding, and he drifted quite a ways from where he was expected to be). My wife calls again. Still no movement of any boats towards the boater in distress. Finally, after another 15 minutes she calls me in California. I call the Coast Guard in Woods Hole, MA to ask what's going on. It turns out that he had indeed been given the location as described by my wife, but he didn't have the ability to go from "300 yards offshore of a house at xxx address" to a lat/long. So he just let everyone keep searching 2 miles away, even though my wife had called back and told him that everybody was on the wrong side of the bay.

While I didn't have a chart handy for a lat/lon, I was able recall from memory that our house is 1.2nm ENE from the New Bedford Hurricane Barrier, in the far NNE corner of the outer bay. While he looked at the chart, I called out some other details about sandbars, a couple areas of foul ground, and where the boat was in relationship to all of this. So finally, from the other side of the US, I've talked this guy into finally figuring out where the boat in distress is located. This "watch officer" at Coast Guard Group Woods Hole sounded like he was about 18 years old and on his first day on the job.

I hang up with CG Group Woods Hole and call my wife. Moments after she answered, she sees a boat finally take off in the right direction. 45 minutes or an hour after my wife first reported the position.

In this case, the delay was not critical, but the incident did bother me enough that I sent a fax summarizing the events and making a couple suggestions to the OIC Group Wood's Hole. Never received even an acknowledgement of the fax.

 

[mrjimboalaska]

Wow----
Puddle, we appreciate your service to Country, much like my wife preparing for her 2nd deployment to Iraq. But, you said nothing to defend the poor service given the "ill prepared" "inexperienced" boaters on the water. You just ranted......and I'm a Fan of ALL our Military, thank God we have you guys(and gals)!
Fire Fyter-----
Have to agree with WC on the budget growth, My brother retired as a Captain from the City of Nampa, Idaho, Budget was spent every year to increase next years budget, they even built a new Sub-station, put 2 new pumper and a Rescue Truck in it, furnished it, Nice pool table weights, basically the works, and it sat unstaffed for 7 years, 7!!! But, they spent the Bond Money(Property Taxes).
Volunteer Fireman? I know my brother wouldn't want to do a search of a structure with one!
Much like the Federal Government, there is a lot of cream at the local level, actually I believe that we should privatize all police, fire and DMV depts.

 

[Firefyter]

Fire fighters and there fragle little egos! LMAO....

I can assure ya, there's nothing fragile about my ego. Now your's, on the other hand....well, you still haven't told us which one of the two it was

From one of the departments Im involved with. "Good news, the budget didn't get cut this year so we can get the new training room tables, blah blah blah." These tables were three years old and in perfict condition but it was a money grab... Or! We need this new engine, w must have it to save homes with our limited man power, $175,000 later, it can not respond becouse it is not approved as a first attack engine.....

Hey, Snafu's happen. As to the engine, it wasn't approved by who? NFPA doesn't have a "first attack engine" category. If the engine met NFPA specs, but didn't meet local or state specs, that's a totally different matter. Some ONE dropped the ball, but it shouldn't be an indictment on the fire service as a whole. You're really reaching with these examples, since your earlier arguments couldn't weather the scrutiny. Try again.....

Once again, this is a thread about the coast guard in Hawaii, why are you even here except to defend your job and ego?????????

I'm not here to defend either. I'm here to defend the profession. May I remind you, you're the one who started this, not me. If I was to start making uninformed rants impugning the reputation of the AF, I would expect you to do the same. As it is, I have too much respect to bash an entire branch of the service based on one poster's ramblings.

As I said in an earlier post, it's this attitude that gives volunteer firefighters a bad name.

Thomas McMonigle
IAFF Local 576

 

[Firefyter]

Fire Fyter-----
Have to agree with WC on the budget growth, My brother retired as a Captain from the City of Nampa, Idaho, Budget was spent every year to increase next years budget, they even built a new Sub-station, put 2 new pumper and a Rescue Truck in it, furnished it, Nice pool table weights, basically the works, and it sat unstaffed for 7 years, 7!!! But, they spent the Bond Money(Property Taxes).

Budget growth in the FD has happened, but it's largely because of how we've had to spread ourselves so thin trying to cover everything that's been dropped in our laps. I can assure you that it's not widespread either, FD budgets are being cut every year, I know ours has been cut the last 3 years in a row.

As far as the station, that sounds like poor management from the top down. How could a mayor or city manager allow that to happen? If there wasn't money to staff it, it shouldn't have been built. There are higher players up the ladder than fire chiefs, and they control the purse strings.

Volunteer Fireman? I know my brother wouldn't want to do a search of a structure with one!

I really don't have a problem with volunteers, they serve a very important purpose in rural communities where there is no other option. A lot of volunteers are professional firefighters volunteering on their days off. As long as a person is trained, and behaves in a safe manner, I'll go in with 'em.

Much like the Federal Government, there is a lot of cream at the local level, actually I believe that we should privatize all police, fire and DMV depts.

Yes, there is a lot of cream in every branch of govt. As far as privatizing emergency services, it's been tried in place after place, only to fall flat. People just don't realize the overhead involved.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

I'm an ex Coastie, I'll throw in my 2 cents, some random thoughts...

There are lots of things to take into account, there are what 38,000 servicemen & women in the coast guard, you could fit them all in most DIV II football stadiums and they have alot of ground to cover, the US mainland coast, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Great Lakes, the Inland waterways, some are overseas in Iraq, some are stationed on Naval vessels as boarding teams, some in So. America in LEDET's [Law Enforcement Detachments] fighting the "war on drugs". Do we still have Loran? If so they operate most of the worlds Loran Stations in places like Sparks, NV, Middleton, CA and various places overseas --nowhere near water. You also in the context of this thread have to throw out alot because of their specific duties as not being in an operations position. Let's just say they are spread very thin, and I'm sure more so now that they've been sucked into Homeland Defense [When I was in we were part of the DOT].

Another thing to consider is, a tour/billet whatever you want to call it works just like the other armed services, these guys are in one place for 4 yrs. MAX more than likely 3 and if promoted or off to training even less. Most of your Captains have been sailing the same waters for years maybe their whole lives, FF have the intimate local knowledge as well.

Now on Oahu, you have big CG base, this just adds to the bureaucracy the small boat stations have to put up with, I was never at a small boat station, but did notice the one's in close proximity of a large base of operations didn't have the freedom a more out of the way independant station had. They local small boat station could be ready to go, but some pencil pushing LT in Honolulu told them to wait.

There are some very fine waterman in the Coast Guard and there are some sad sacks of [you know what], just like in everything else. And bottom line is it does come down to Command, there are good CO's, who get their units involved in the community and have good relations with other service providers at a grass roots level and actually have a great repoir with the locals and then their are the others who don't and it's a fight and the community is who ultimately suffers.

It sounds to me like you are not clear on the CG responsibilites in your area, with the water being a major part of your lifestyle and the other wonderful public services [FF/Lifeguards] maybe it is not clearly defined. Perhaps you should invite a rep from the local small boat station to visit at a club meeting and get their POV. Instead of asking a bunch of divers to speculate what the problem is, probably could go talk to the CO one on one at the small boat station.

For me personally, I had a great time in the CG my first 4 years thought I'd be a lifer, worked my ***** off, then when I got my dream job, Operations Officer on a Patrol Boat out of Socal, I got saddled with a bad command and it sucked the life from me within the 2 years, and I got out, and was so badly burned out got talked into moving to the desert [still regretting that one]. I still have lots of friends in and they are very skilled at what they do.

So I feel for your problems with your local CG, but this board is not going to resolve them or shed any light on your local problem, instead it just fuels negativity and some misconceptions and only seems to be highlighting the negative not any positives. I'm sure I could go online and dig up over the last 10 yrs a handful of negative stories on any military branch and most public services.

Garrett

 

[sea nmf]

Shark byte,

Oh, but you HAVE shed light on the problem. Possible issues are not enough manpower (spread too thin) and ineffective command. These are issues even in the private sector!

I would like to hear a rep speak at a function. This weekend there is a co-picnic with Oahu Scuba Boarders and the Sea Lancers. The Lancers is a large club and they may be open to inviting a speaker if they haven't already done so. I'll ask this weekend.

By the way, thanks for your post!!

 

[Cacia]

yes, I just really want to know why it is the way it is...


Personally, I am glad the fire department is "overfunded". They show up and have the right equipment and are enthusiastic about the the job of rescue. With all the government "waste", I say overfund them....they rock in Hawaii Kai. Whats more, they are friends with the boat captains and work well as a team with others in the community. The fact that they are local people and act invested in our community may play a role...I don't really know. Many of them paddle and surf. I think thay really seem to understand the ocean in our area. My intent would not be to knock the Coast Guard who have many important responsibilities that perhaps takes time and focus off local emergencies here on Oahu. I just would like to know how it actually works where the rubber meets the road. And the captains are saying to call the fire department, and from what I have seen..if your life is in eminent danger, that appears to be your best bet.

"The good ol boy network" is not all bad if it cuts the red tape of being rescued.

So I feel for your problems with your local CG, but this board is not going to resolve them or shed any light on your local problem, instead it just fuels negativity and some misconceptions and only seems to be highlighting the negative not any positives

No---not my intention at all....just want to know my best shot if I need help out there. If people are dialed in to our reality here and call the fire department and get rescued, that would be helpful. If the problems can be resolved, that would be great. If we cannot do that, then we need to have a plan B. Many boaters have each others numbers and would be willing to respond immediately to search for divers, etc. This is not rocket science. The only real tradgedy would be to think the Coast Guard would come zipping out and then to wait and have them not even launch because of some organizational "issues". I think boaters need to have additional plans in their rescue protoccol. Towing services, Fire department, friends with boats. To only rely on the Coast Guard does not seem like a good idea from what accounts I have heard.