CO Death Myth

[WSOPFAN]

FWIW, Dave did not say that there was proof positive that CO was not involved, he said that that is what he believes. The burden of proof weighs no more heavily on him than on the rest of us. He clearly stated it as opinion, not as fact.

What he and others have stated completely contradicts almost everything posted in the A&I thread. So I for one would like to know who is lying and why period.

 

[redacted]

FWIW, Dave did not say that there was proof positive that CO was not involved, he said that that is what he believes. The burden of proof weighs no more heavily on him than on the rest of us. He clearly stated it as opinion, not as fact.

But the question (concern) remains; does he believe that because CO is bad for business or because there is some evidence otherwise. Unfortunately, even the possibility of CO being the culprit is not good for business. But it may well be that a bigger problem might be that of getting credible accurate information about things like this. I, for one, tend to be put off by the idea that someone is purposely trying to mislead me and others for their own benefit. I am not accusing Dave of this and I fully trust that Christi does not do this. As far as I am concerned, we still have an incident here that has not been explained in terms of what caused it and what was the source of that cause.

 

[WSOPFAN]

Well he did say it was "inconceivable" that one tank could come off the line "different" than the rest; that seems to be stating it is impossible and I equate that to an attempt to express factual information rather than an opinion. If someone is not going to be honest about a simple matter of plumbing, why should his "opinion" be held in high regard about the more subjective information?

This was posted in A&I by Dive-aholic:

Do you know anything about how fills are done in Cozumel? Do you know the percentage of nitrox fills compared to air fills? Nitrox isn't used as much as air and it isn't all that unusual for no nitrox tanks to go out on any given day. If a tank or two happen to go out one day they will be filled when they are returned. So this is how CO CAN BE PRODUCED JUST IN A SINGLE TANK. The tank belonged to the fill station. This occurred in Mexico, not the US. They do things differently there.

Also this:

What more do you want me to explain?? If only one nitrox tank had been rented the day before (I know at least one was), and it was filled once returned it could have been contaminated. Nitrox tanks are not rented out as much as air tanks. Many days the fill stations don't rent any nitrox tanks. Some days they only rent a few. The group was renting one nitrox tank each day for a few days before the incident. If no other nitrox tanks were being sent out by the fill station, or the one tank that was returned each day was filled alone, it is not only realistic, it is probable.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

Dear Wsopfan,

Perhaps you missed the most telling parts of the thread you are cherry picking items from. First off, one poster said that he directly questioned the clinic if they had a spectrophotometer to measure Corboxyhemogobin content, and received a clear answer of no! How then could they do more than look at skin color which is a very poor indicator...to Mexicans we all look pink! How then can anyone conclude that the victim had lethal levels of Carboxyhemoglobin. Maybe Por Esto did...ha, ha, ha.

Then if they really believed it was CO in the Meridiano tank, surely someone could have found a CO analyzer.

Secondly, in that same thread a very well respected Cave Diver and ER doc (TS&M) suggested that the symptoms of the reported event more closely related to CO2 overload than CO poisoning.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[DandyDon]

I have to wish that Dave had gotten in on the A&I thread a month ago. It's still be the place to discuss this I think. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...-tourist-dies-while-diving-cozumel-caves.html

I guess Dave's intent to take attention away from it, but this had the opposite effect.

 

[WSOPFAN]

Dear Wsopfan,

Perhaps you missed the most telling parts of the thread you are cherry picking items from. First off, one poster said that he directly questioned the clinic if they had a spectrophotometer to measure Corboxyhemogobin content, and received a clear answer of no! How then could they do more than look at skin color which is a very poor indicator...to Mexicans we all look pink! How then can anyone conclude that the victim had lethal levels of Carboxyhemoglobin. Maybe Por Esto did...ha, ha, ha.

Then if they really believed it was CO in the Meridiano tank, surely someone could have found a CO analyzer.

Secondly, in that same thread a very well respected Cave Diver and ER doc (TS&M) suggested that the symptoms of the reported event more closely related to CO2 overload than CO poisoning.


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

You mean this by swampdiver:

We inquired at the chamber well over a year ago as to whether a blood COHb could be done on a presenting diver and was told no, however we did not inquire at the IMSS public hospital.

Yea so what that was a year ago. Maybe you can explain why dive-aholic stated this:

The autopsy report also stated elevated levels of carboxyhemoglobin were found in the blood. While I understand you posted earlier that they couldn't test for that, you were either incorrect or they've since upgraded their equipment.

Now that would indicate to me that a test was done.

This was also posted by dive-aholic:

Okay, let me rephrase. There's only one way to get elevated carboyxhemoglobin levels high enough to be lethal and have the coroner deem the cause of death carbon monoxide poisoning.

That indicates to me that the autopsy concluded by way of a test that the levels were lethal.
So where exactly is your proof from whoever you talked to that this information is false and no test was ever done?

Also the coroners report that was posted was from DQR NOT Por Esto......
What is with ha,ha,ha Dave? You think it is funny this person's death took place? Pathetic......

This was also posted:

I don't know Dillehay or how he would even get access to any of those records. It would seem that since he is associated with a dive shop in Cozumel that his statement could be just a bit biased. Also, no one ever confirmed what fill station the cylinder came from. Yes, someone stated it was Meridiano but that person was not on the trip so that information is also questionable.​ But even if it was and there were CO alarms and their response is to shut down the compressor, they need to be attentive to the inline analyzers and the alarms. On at least one occasion I witnessed one of the employees at the fill station sitting down with his eyes closed. At not time did I ever witness any of the employees tending to the compressors or monitors while they were operating. I'm also not sure what this "massive holding tank" is as all cylinders at the fill station were filled directly from the compressors not from any banks. Finally, the rebreather was examined after the incident. It was not a CO2 hit.

So while you are ranting about what fill station it was it has not been confirmed.
You indicated in your first post there is very little to substantiate the coroners conclusion. Well the things I just posted suggest otherwise but of course feel free to prove me wrong and not with I know because I live here or I heard from somebody.

 

[ggunn]

What he and others have stated completely contradicts almost everything posted in the A&I thread. So I for one would like to know who is lying and why period.

Yeah, well, good luck with that one. Just because opinions differ, that does not mean that someone necessarily is lying. The body is gone, and the test that could have shown that CO was or was not contributory to the fatality was not performed.

 

[lionfish-eater]

Dave please don't stop posting. Many SBers do not have the access to local news and scuttlebutt that you and cristi have. Intelligent readers can see through the BS and appreciate your opinions and observations. You do not come across as self serving or trying to coverup incidents that would keep people away. Many of us value your insights although we realize that the "truth" is not always what it appears to be. Divers who have personal experience with conditions in Coz knew right away that the downcurrents excuse was BS and it was obvious that it was a narc dive gone bad. The people who post here and follow these posts are passionate about diving and all have their reasons for coming to Coz, and these discussions don't keep us from coming back. Instead they convince us that safety is important and help us to make better choices of who to dive with. Thank you for running the professional operation that you and Memo have built.


Get out of the jar!

 

[firstdive2005]

As I have several thousand dives now, my dive gear has morphed into high end gear, in the hopes this will lessen dive equipment related accidents. My dad told me when I was young, buy good tools they always last longer when you take care of them. I bought a Nitrox tester to travel with me for reasons related to this topic and the course I was taught from; do not rely on OTHERS FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF GAS CONTENT. Similarly as I grow in resource reading of conditions of gas fill stations around the world and at home I have purchased a reliable CO tester. I used it on Cozumel from Nov12-18/11. I used it for the first time in several thousand fills, kinda startles me, yet I feel fortunate and sad at the same time. Divers around the world have experienced severe irreversible condition of death by bad gas around the world as this diver likely did also. I was surprised at the 'it's your own fault for not testing' attitude I heard from several conversations I was involved in while down on Coz this time.
I was always relying on the fill stations to be monitored and inspected for guaranteed clean fills. Did I get a great roll of the dice for safe fills? Am I part of a trend for over cautiousness by buying a CO tester? If I am, O well I wonder why the guy that was really loud about it's your own fault for not testing, borrowed use of my tester. I am glad he did.
My CO tester showed a 1 on the monitor. I am sad a qualified, safe, experienced diver met demise on my favorite dive spot, my heart goes to his family and friends. I truly support full and complete, honest evaluation of the condition of his gas. I wonder if that has or will be done. Even if it was bad gas, it would lead to better conditions of fill so future divers would be safer. I can't imagine how the family feels if true testing wasnt completed and ambiguous results are only available. This does the true injustice to diving.
Again, family and friends I wish you peace. kevin

 

[WSOPFAN]

Yeah, well, good luck with that one. Just because opinions differ, that does not mean that someone necessarily is lying. The body is gone, and the test that could have shown that CO was or was not contributory to the fatality was not performed.

Ok ask yourself this.......if NOT CO poisoning what was the cause of death? Dave suggests the news article may have gotten badly translated and it should be CO2 poisoning which would mean faulty equipment. The dive team inspected said equipment and concluded nothing wrong. This also happened if I remember right about 15-20 minutes in which should indicate no way he was OOA. So once again what would be the cause of death?