'Clinically dead' rebreather diver dragged from quarry - and then revived

[jblack]

I think that quarry’s max depth is 20 m. That seems pretty shallow to have a miss adventure as you described above. Would that be accurate?

i believe some 30% of ccr deaths happen in less then 50 ft of water.... from low po2....

 

[Dan]

Have his CCR been checked for O2 supply malfunction after the incident?

 

[jblack]

a mistake like this could be from flying manual and not watching ones PO2 during accent... but all aside was a good save. happy to hear the person made it.

 

[Ayisha]

... CPR is now taught two ways: For the general lay public, chest compression ONLY. For professional responders who have more training AND CPR masks for personal protection...then yes, with breathing...
If the responders were volunteers and certified in the past two years (the usual recertification requirement) under the new standards for the general public, they actually would not be allowed to perform CPR breathing at all--it would be exceeding their new training standard, and making them personally liable.

That is not entirely correct. Drowning victims still get 2 breaths. You can read it in your manual.

 

[DandyDon]

That is not entirely correct. Drowning victims still get 2 breaths. You can read it in your manual.

And small children even without drowning.

 

[688ClassRebreather]

Chest compressions WERE mentioned. The bit says "performed CPR" and CPR consists primarily of chest compression these days. It was found out some year ago that the chest compressions alone force enough blood circulation to keep tissues oxygenated, including the brain. CPR is now taught two ways: For the general lay public, chest compression ONLY. For professional responders who have more training AND CPR masks for personal protection...then yes, with breathing. Along with the assumption that professional responders will usually be there in pairs, so one can compress while the other does the breathing, instead of losing time switching back and forth.
FWIW.

If the responders were volunteers and certified in the past two years (the usual recertification requirement) under the new standards for the general public, they actually would not be allowed to perform CPR breathing at all--it would be exceeding their new training standard, and making them personally liable.

Rred, This is not exactly correct, at least not in the US. Hands-only CPR is an amazing improvement that has saved countless lives. It is especially useful in the first few minutes of an incident before more qualified help arrives. However, full CPR with rescue breathes is still taught and is recommended in several cases, including drowning. Here is the current information from the Heart Association: Request Rejected

 

[KenGordon]

If the responders were volunteers and certified in the past two years (the usual recertification requirement) under the new standards for the general public, they actually would not be allowed to perform CPR breathing at all--it would be exceeding their new training standard, and making them personally liable.

“Well your honour, although I was taught in my Sports Diver course to give rescues breaths every 30 compressions, and although I could see the victim was a rebreather diver and I had been taught that hypoxia is a likely problem for rebreather divers I decided, on the basis of what some twit posted on the internet, to just do compressions, because I thought that pumping blood though lungs still containing hypoxia gas was obviously the best plan.”

People bringing up liability like this makes my blood boil. Your comments are the sort off thing that actually leads to people thinking it is ok to 1) not train 2) stand about as someone dies.

 

[KenGordon]

That said, OC does not have a failure mode that can cause the user to suddenly lose consciousness with little to no warning. I think the population of divers generally is aging and we're seeing more medical issues on OC as well but rebreathers have a couple of devilish hazards that, in my opinion, cannot easily be mitigated by anything other than an obsessive attention to detail.

There are two phases to staying alive on CC. Before the dive and during the dive.

Before the dive proper attention is required, but I would not call that obsessive. You need to assemble it properly, make sure orings are clear of rubbish, the scrubber is properly packed and that you have the correct fills, follow a list and don’t discuss the football in the middle.

On the dive you have to check your handset now and again. Regularly but not obsessively. On a flat dive it takes a while (minutes) for ppo2 to drop dangerously. To miss that you need to be getting it properly wrong, it is not a detail, it isn’t the main thing. You’d also have to miss the noise of the solenoid stopping or the absence of the gas noises, that might be called a detail.

You have to balance the missed failure risk against the running out of gas risk on OC. Some dives become pretty marginal OC. Personally I am way more relaxed CC past 40 or 50m than I ever was on OC since the pressure of time is greatly reduced, also I can dive much better gas mixes.

Keeping the equipment in good condition is more important than on OC. You can leave a twinset alone for a year, put it on and jump in. CC that will not work. A few years ago there was a complicated double fatality (maybe two singles, depending on how you look at it) where the initial cause was kit in (stupidly) bad condition failing. Both ought to have survived had they followed their training and been dived up. Keeping your cells in date is not obsessive any more than making sure your OC gas is what you think it ought to be.

 

[KevinNM]

The good sam laws vary. Usually, when the case gets into court the court will ask "Were you trained to do that?" and if you answer "Well no, that's not the way I was taught to do it, but I THINK I KNOW BETTER..." you've just screwed yourself.

If you've had formal certification, you DO NOT exceed what you've been taught. Even if it is wrong. Or else you open a whole big can of worms, that the courts often don't want to hear about. That's just the way it is.

In trauma first aid, tourniquets used to be normal. Then for maybe 30? 40? years the rule became "Never apply a tourniquet, it could result in loss of a limb." Well...After Vietnam and the Gulf incursions, the Army, who make a serious point about tracking casualties and which treatments save the most lives, very extensively documented that tourniquets save lives. You may lose that limb--but it beats bleeding out and dying, the way they score things.

And finally about four years ago with domestic terrorism becoming so rampant, the national standards changed back. The "Stop the Bleed" campaign now teaches tourniquets, and distributes them as standard equipment. (STB kits are often stocked where defibrillator kits are.) Times change, wheels turn.

But for good samaritans, if you've had *no* training, you will be held to a different standard than someone who has had some training--and violates it. Same thing for paramedics, if you exceed or violate the training, you become liable.

It varies a lot. The NM Good Samaritan law also protects you from ‘practicing medicine without a license’ as long as you are not being paid to provide medical treatment at the time. However the Dept of Health will still try to pull your license if you violate scope of practice if you are licensed. The test case for the GS law was a couple of on-duty police types (I think border patrol) who pulled a rolled over car off a guy who was pinned under it and couldn’t breath. The decision was they were not being paid to provide medical assistance and were covered.

 

[rjack321]

i believe some 30% of ccr deaths happen in less then 50 ft of water.... from low po2....

OC divers always seem most paranoid about toxing.
I am more afraid of getting dumber and dumber with hypoxia