Cleaning Agents? SimpleGreen at depth?

[parzdiver]

The amount of vapors in Simple Green is determined by the temperature. Four ATA would not chanage this.

Whouldn't the fact that she was at 4 ATA would increase the partial pressure she was inhaling? Just like what is taught in Nitrox class, the partial pressure of any gas in the cylinder increases with the additional atmospheres.

 

[mts0628]

My sence of taste (no pun intended) is not all that great most of the time. Thank you to everyone who responded. Now, back to my original question...is there anything in it that would be toxic if breathed at depth (if ones ability to taste is unfortunately out of order)?

Hi skuba_girl:

There is only one ingredient listed in the MSDS with a slight hazard. [Dumbed down] the MSDS is an information sheet for all who use chemicals must have for each chemical; typically in an industrial, health care, or educational setting or in environments where a lot of different chemicals are located and may react in an incident. Anyway, the chemical is undiluted 2-butoxyethanol (<4%). Side effects include, nose and eye irritation, headaches, vomiting, and a metallic taste in the subject's mouth. These side effects are typically noted after several hours of exposure (and with increasing partial pressures we can surmise the effects and their intensity). Of course you could exhibit all or none of the symptoms, and still have or have not been subjected to the chemical.

I would say though, when you hear hoof beats, think horses and not zebras. Sure you may have been exposed to [2-]butoxyethanol. But did you analyze your gas for nitrox content, or CO as Dandy Don mentioned? I had suffered headaches after diving air for extended periods and repetitive times (it was several times but it could have been something different each time). Were you properly hydrated, and blah blah blah? You know the drill (I assume).

And finally, I concur with others about the gas analysis as the smoking gun. It will tell all. And for the record, I have a degree in Chemistry (and Biochemistry) and have used this chemical before. No worries on my end (EEEK!- my dying noise). Good luck and please follow up when you find something out.

With kind regards,
Thomas

 

[DandyDon]

...or CO2 as Dandy Don mentioned?

Nope! CO2 is a risk, but I mentioned CO, bigggg difference, often confused as it was for you - and I always test every tank for it. Are you really not certified?

DAN admits they have no idea how many CO hits are written off as travelers flu and unknown, nor how many CO diver deaths are not discovered because neither the body nor the tank was checked for CO. To our knowledge, not many die of CO, but try asking fill stations for a tour of their compressor including...

> their last 4 quarterly tests results;
> their inline CO scrubber;
> their inline CO monitor with auto shut-off;
> the location of their air intake, etc...?​

I did a few, then bought the analyzer.

CO2 is not one of my worries. I suppose one could use a Nitrox analyzer to check for O2 content and if there is 21% or more - fine. But that won't show a dangerous level of CO. 10 ppm is 0.001% - the maximum safe limit.

 

[mts0628]

Nope! CO2 is a risk, but I mentioned CO, bigggg difference, often confused as it was for you - and I always test every tank for it. Are you really not certified?

Hey DandyDon:

Sorry about that. I actually meant CO and I was not confused- I just typed the wrong compound. I read all the posts and then responded using what I read from memory (I read CO and CO₂ and always remember your name and you giving good scoop). And the difference, I know but not a bigggg difference- just an extra oxygen molecule, an extra bond, and a couple of shared electrons. I was just now being facetious (and a Chemistry clown) in case somebody wants to call me an unnecessary name but seriously, it was merely a mistake. Sorry and it has been corrected. And certification? Eh, Holiday Inn Express.

With kind and good spirited regards,
Thomas

 

[DandyDon]

Hey DandyDon:

Sorry about that. I actually meant CO and I was not confused- I just typed the wrong compound. I read all the posts and then responded using what I read from memory (I read CO and CO₂ and always remember your name and you giving good scoop). And the difference, I know but not a bigggg difference- just an extra oxygen molecule, an extra bond, and a couple of shared electrons. I was just now being facetious (and a Chemistry clown) in case somebody wants to call me an unnecessary name but seriously, it was merely a mistake. Sorry and it has been corrected. And certification? Eh, Holiday Inn Express.

With kind and good spirited regards,
Thomas

I don't mean to make a big deal out of the mistake, CO2 can give you problems from skip breathing, while CO can give you similar problems, or leave you severely ill, injured or dead - so I get picky in the discussions, especially quoting me.

 

[mts0628]

I don't mean to make a big deal out of the mistake, CO2 can give you problems from skip breathing, while CO can give you similar problems, or leave you severely ill, injured or dead - so I get picky in the discussions, especially quoting me.

Hey Don:

I absolutely agree with all of your points- especially the implied point that carbon monoxide can be found in the tank but carbon dioxide while not impossible, is a bit more difficult to introduce into a fill and more than likely is the culprit of poor breathing practices. And I totally understand and I rarely make a mistake when it comes to Chemistry or when quoting [great] sources- but I obviously did in this instance. Thank you for calling me on it and I will try to recalibrate my attention-to-detail. Again, I apologize.

And for the record, I do have at least OW.

With kindest regards from North Carolina,
Thomas

 

[Dr Deco]

Hello Readers:

There is a bit of confusion concerning partial pressures of gases and that of vapors. Chemists define a gas as a compound that cannot be condensed to a liquid at room temperature. Oxygen, nitrogen are examples, and they are what we normally think of when we think "gas."

Vapors, on the other hand, are molecules that are in equilibrium with the liquid. An example would be water vapor in contact with liquid water is a closed jar at room temperature. The water vapor exerts a pressure of 47 torr; this represents the equilibrium between water molecules in the liquid and in the space of the jar. This exchange is driven by heat and counter balanced by the intermolecular forces in the liquid.

Heating the water in the jar will increase the molecular motion, and more molecules will leave the liquid as vapor. Heat it hot enough, and you will get steam. With the lid on the jar, it would soon rupture. Arrange the vessel properly and you can make a steam engine. All the while, you must heat the water. Adding another gas to the jar will never make the water boil. This "vapor pressure" effect is common to all liquids, including those in Simple Green. The 4 ATA of air is of no importance in this case

If you pump a gas into a container, the number of molecules will increase with pressure of that gas.

 

[DocVikingo]

There is a bit of confusion concerning partial pressures of gases and that of vapors. Chemists define a gas as a compound that cannot be condensed to a liquid at room temperature. Oxygen, nitrogen are examples, and they are what we normally think of when we think "gas." Vapors, on the other hand, are molecules that are in equilibrium with the liquid. The 4 ATA of air is of no importance in this case.

Thank you, Michael.

Regards,

Doc

 

[SDAnderson]

From the Simple Green All Purpose Cleaner Material Safety Data Sheet:

• Eye Contact: Mild Eye Irritant.
• Skin Contact: No adverse effects expected under typical use conditions. Prolonged exposure may cause dryness. Under this condition, use of gloves or skin moisturizer after washing may be indicated.
• Ingestion: May cause stomach or intestinal upset if swallowed (due to detersive properties.)
• Inhalation: No adverse effects expected under typical use conditions. Adequate ventilation should be present when using Simple GreenŽ® over a prolonged period of time. Open windows or ventilate via fan or other air moving equipment if necessary.
• Carcinogens: No ingredients are listed by OSHA, IARC, or NTP as known or suspected carcinogens.
• Medical Conditions: No medical conditions are known to be aggravated by exposure to Simple GreenŽ®. Dermal-sensitive users may experience mild but reversible reactions.

I doubt scuba counts as typical use conditions but clearly it is a mild irritant that some people can be sensitive to. There's no excuse if the tank wasn't fully rinsed but I suspect that there were other factors contributing to OP's problem...look forward to hearing what the gas analysis says.

 

[AlaskaDiver]

I too had experienced headaches after diving that were different from sinus types, different from dehydration and different from fever related. i too thought it had to be poor quality gas. It ended up being my ascent rate in the final 20' I read on SB in another forum that my ascension rate after doing the 3 minute safety stop should be slooooow. I really had not done any crazy or fast ascents, but thought, why not I'll try slowing it down. I tried simply adding 5-10 seconds to each foot ascended in that final 20' range. It worked! It may be worth a try, especially where you are having repetitive dives.