Choice, Challenges and Egos.
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I think we need to start a new forum for Whine & Cheeze discussions so the Basic Scuba forum can focused on diving. 
junior diver:
It's a shame that by the time you finish entry level training that you don't realize that ...yes!...there is such a thing as great skill in diving.
Uncle Pug:I think we need to start a new forum for Whine & Cheeze discussions so the Basic Scuba forum can focused on diving.
I wouldn't mind some wine and cheeze about now.
I agree that experience is important but can you really tell by equipment if someone is a capable diver?
I'll give you an example from just a couple of weeks ago in the BVIs. I was on a boat chatting with this guy and initially the conversation was about where each of us had gone on previous dive trips but it very quickly turned to all the certifications he had - quite a few. I, on the other hand, have been diving for several years and in several destinations around the world but I've never gone beyond my initial OW card. Not that it's all you need and, honestly, I have been looking into taking some advanced and nitrox training.
What was strange about the conversation was the fact that this guy could simply not compute that someone could have enjoyed diving for years on various continents and not have a collection of certifications - he just didn't get it! After being mildly annoying as he continuously eluded to his superior ability as a diver resulting from all his certifications, he starts donning his gear. Now, he did have some really nice stuff and, in my opinion, took the award for most well accessorized diver on the boat that day. We dove the Rhone in a group of 5 led by the DM - 65' in good conditions - a great dive but nothing tough about the dive at all. In the water this guy was a mess. I won't go into details but he ran into me and a few others multiple times and was all over the place. I tried to stay as far from him as possible. Great gear - scary diver.
I just don't get why people can't just get in the water and enjoy it for what it is.
Steve
I'll give you an example from just a couple of weeks ago in the BVIs. I was on a boat chatting with this guy and initially the conversation was about where each of us had gone on previous dive trips but it very quickly turned to all the certifications he had - quite a few. I, on the other hand, have been diving for several years and in several destinations around the world but I've never gone beyond my initial OW card. Not that it's all you need and, honestly, I have been looking into taking some advanced and nitrox training.
What was strange about the conversation was the fact that this guy could simply not compute that someone could have enjoyed diving for years on various continents and not have a collection of certifications - he just didn't get it! After being mildly annoying as he continuously eluded to his superior ability as a diver resulting from all his certifications, he starts donning his gear. Now, he did have some really nice stuff and, in my opinion, took the award for most well accessorized diver on the boat that day. We dove the Rhone in a group of 5 led by the DM - 65' in good conditions - a great dive but nothing tough about the dive at all. In the water this guy was a mess. I won't go into details but he ran into me and a few others multiple times and was all over the place. I tried to stay as far from him as possible. Great gear - scary diver.
I just don't get why people can't just get in the water and enjoy it for what it is.
Steve
Curt Bowen:
Cards - great if they keep goal-oriented people motivated. But what should be motivating them is the quest for skills that *can* be rewarded with cards, or personal gratification.
I am a goal-oriented diver who wants to get better skillwise so that I am qualified to visit more sites, and have more fun visiting them. The Carribean Commandos/Weekend Bottom Crawlers interest me not as buddies. It's rather easy to weed them out, start talking about a dive plan, contingencies, procedures, and most of the Carribean Commandos/etc. will yawn or complain about starting the dive already. The yawners and complainers I opt not to dive with.
Unfortunate as it is, I realize that many divers are the type of diver I choose not to dive with b/c we do not share objectives or agree on level of risk. To me it's survival of the fittest, the Carribean Commandos help keep the LDSs open and compressors available, they create the market demand for dive destinations and dive boat operators. Yay economics. Without them dive boats would be much more expensive and I'd need my own compressor. So thank you Carribean Commandos... all the power to you. I just choose not to buddy with you and hope you don't kick the reef to death.
To each his own.
I am a goal-oriented diver who wants to get better skillwise so that I am qualified to visit more sites, and have more fun visiting them. The Carribean Commandos/Weekend Bottom Crawlers interest me not as buddies. It's rather easy to weed them out, start talking about a dive plan, contingencies, procedures, and most of the Carribean Commandos/etc. will yawn or complain about starting the dive already. The yawners and complainers I opt not to dive with.
Unfortunate as it is, I realize that many divers are the type of diver I choose not to dive with b/c we do not share objectives or agree on level of risk. To me it's survival of the fittest, the Carribean Commandos help keep the LDSs open and compressors available, they create the market demand for dive destinations and dive boat operators. Yay economics. Without them dive boats would be much more expensive and I'd need my own compressor. So thank you Carribean Commandos... all the power to you. I just choose not to buddy with you and hope you don't kick the reef to death.
To each his own.
DiverDunk:
The accessories were the clue.
Curt Bowen
Contributor
DiverDunk:
I should have elaborated
Its not the type or brand name of the equipment that shows your experience, anyone can buy the best of the best, its the way you put it togather and how your wear it. Just watch the divers on a cattle boat while they prepare their equipment. Chances are you can pick out the better divers just by looking at them put their stuff togather.
New divers or many C-card divers are unsure of their equipment and they fiddle with it lots before they get in the water. It can look clunky and unstreamlined.
Experienced divers have their act togather even if their stuff is 20 years old and ragged.
I agree with Curt....you learn alot about the divers around you, just by watching them gear up. Not only that, but their demeanor on the boat or wherever your at...
I personally don't care what level your at or how long you have been diving, doesn't mean squat to me. What matters to me is how you are as a buddy. A diver with 10 dives can make a better/safer buddy than someone with 20 yrs experience and a thousand dives.
Ok, I'll take one step back....knowing what to do in an emergency is important to me, so having a rescue cert, or being qualified in CPR etc is cool, as long as you payed attention in class.
I personally don't care what level your at or how long you have been diving, doesn't mean squat to me. What matters to me is how you are as a buddy. A diver with 10 dives can make a better/safer buddy than someone with 20 yrs experience and a thousand dives.
Ok, I'll take one step back....knowing what to do in an emergency is important to me, so having a rescue cert, or being qualified in CPR etc is cool, as long as you payed attention in class.
This thread really struck me. As I learned diving from a DM, who lived in HI for 3 yrs in the Army. I know now, although he wasn't an "instructor," he is the one that really taught me to dive. LOTS of snorkelling, to the point of freedving by most standards, and finally tanks. Shallow depths, simple tasks, but when I DID go to get "My C-Card" it all seemed trival. So, for that past 13 years, I'm a certed diver, without a dive in a bunch of years. I have no desire to dive to 300' on funky gas, and requiring wicked stops. I think I could understand it, but it's not my diving goal. I wanna be the best damn open water diver ever. No caves, not too deep into the wrecks, no goofy gasses for going deep, just soaking up the weightlessness, enjoying the sites, and not worrying about whether or not I see another sunset. I love the thrill of life, respect diving dangers, but given good dicipline, OW can be enough to enjoy the core of underwater sites?!
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