Chino prison commercial diver training program

[AMERICAN_DIVER]

Well, Im just going on my way here and will do my best to be a good person and not do other people wrong and work for what I have. I will also do my part to better my self and society in general, without asking for a hand out from the government. Its sad that people will stand behind this. The only people I see really supporting this program will have other motives such as tax breaks and things along those lines. Otherwise I wish you safe diving.

 

[koozemani]

Well heres the deal..
If 7% of the guys out of this program will committ a crime again and 70% of those not in the progam will comitt a crime again and end up back in jail.

Now thats;
1. 90% less relapse to "kicking your door in and robbing you" - I didnt serve for as long as you, but I did serve in live ops so I know they might have a surprise if they try that - but that aside..
2. A massive reduction in cost of keeping them in jail. If even for ONE extra year, it cuts the cost almost in half.
3. Obviously not everyone qualify for such a programme so its not gonna be 2 million new commercial divers sent out of there..

These numbers have been repeated ad nauseum, but I have a question concerning them that I don't think has been addressed. Is the 7% vs 70% of repeat offenders nationwide of only in the state of California? I ask this because it was mentioned that there are few opportunities for commercial divers in CA. So if these graduates are leaving for other states do we really know if they are repeat offenders since these numbers seem to be CA based.

 

[Tigerman]

To the state of california, that wont matter - but its definetly a very good question wether or not they get arrested elsewhere.
I would suspect this would be easy to keep track of though, given people tends to keep records of people who get arrested?

 

[gcarter]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Intentions may be good but I do question the statistics. and the controls.

I doubt very much that entrants to this program are drawn randomly from the prison population. Even if they are, not all prison populations are created equally within the same state let alone between states.

I would be shocked if the selection criteria for inclusion in this program does not skew the recidivism rate. The statistic is meaningless without comparison to a valid, similarly constituted control group. Relying on that statistic as the basis for supporting the program is therefore intellectually dishonest at best.

As to the discussion of cost of training versus cost of incarceration, this assumes that the only consideration is or should be economic. It is not unreasoanble to suggest that fairness may dictate imposing a higher financial burden on the taxpayer so as to not give advantage to lawbreakers over taxpayers in overall financial security. There is no reason why a law abiding taxpayer should have to settle for a job at the local 7-11 because they could not afford the training while the guy who robbed that same 7-11 gets trained at his tax expense for better opportnities.

None of this suggests that opportunity for betterment or rehabilitation should not be offered. It does suggest that fundamental fairness demands that it not be free so as to not confer special advantage over law abiding citizens.

IMHO, YMMV.

 

[Superlyte27]

If you can't compete on the job front with someone who came out of prison with a skill and no money, no hat, no gear, well ... perhaps that 20K was not as well spent as it might have been.

LOL, right on Thal. That is funny, and accurate.

 

[Bombay High]

1. First of all, thank you for your service to our country.

2. You're wrong and tigerman explained the simple mathematics to you in post #62

3. Your insulting other's countries does nothing to improve your arguments.

4. I'm an American diver too, and there's several thousand more of us here -- if you're going to wear that moniker you really ought to try to honorably represent it in all the forums in which you participate.

I totally agree with you.
I have worked closely with several great American commercial divers in the North Sea as well as the Persian Gulf, and I can tell you this rudeness is not representative of them at all.
As Thallasamania says - if you have confidence in your skills, who cares what the competition is ?

 

[fstbttms]

I don't think I should have to compete with people who &#*$ed over normal people to land a job. But thats just me and for all the liberals on this thread I'm sorry you all feel this way and good luck diving on the weekends.

Hey chief, maybe you should take up your gripe with the Republican leadership in California. Ronald Reagan was governor in 1970 when the Chino program was started and Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor in 2006, when it was re-established. It was under conservative administrations that this handout to felons began and has continued.

But don't let the facts stand in the way of your argument.

 

[ajwelds]

Kinda late here, but..... Maybe if Cali didn't give handouts to everybody there wouldn't be a need for a program that takes away from those of us taxpayers in every other state. I decided to stay away from comm'l diving because of the glut in the market. It was going to cost me $25k for school instead of costing taxpayers every day. I work on land based drilling rigs running a $80k welding truck up & down the highway. It has taken care of my family for many years, but the water is my passion. I guess retiring at 50 in the Caribean will have to suffice. Just sayin....

 

[DCBC]

Did you hear about the new program that started-up in the prison system? It's called 'pillow stuffing.' It's really great, we teach people how to stuff pillows and it only cost the tax payers a few hundred thousand dollars annually!

What's the advantage? What do the inmates do when they get out; get pillow stuffing jobs?

No, don't be ridiculous! They get to feel better about themselves. It's called rehabilitation.

Couldn't they get rehabilitated learning something viable? A needed skill that's in demand so they could be employed after they get out?

Ya, but you miss the point!

Which is?

They get rehabilitated.

???


COMMENT: The market for commercial divers is a limited one. Much of it involves the requirement on the part of an applicant to not have a criminal record. This is a condition of employment for many international companies in the commercial diving sector. Secondly, it is a requirement of the immigration system of most countries (they don't let you in). Let's face the facts; commercial diving in today's current economy is a poor choice for the government to spend tax payer's money.

I also agree that there are too many people with university degrees that fret and struggle over paying their student loans and making enough income for themselves and their children. They can't get a job in their field, so they drive a cab or work in a 7 11, but do pay-back what they borrowed from Society. Why is an Inmate treated differently?

Perhaps more focus should be on "Justice" to all people (even the law abiding ones). I'm not saying not to extend a helping hand, but what's the matter with repayment of a loan for training. Treat EVERY member of society in a fair and equitable manner. Why should anyone NOT have a benefit, solely because they chose to obey the law?