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Checklists: If surgical teams don't comply, what hope do divers have?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba Discussions' started by GLOC, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    51,740
    17,600
    113
    OC rec??? The only two questions are: does my buddy look like a diver and did I hear them breathe? The only thing I require from my buddy is that I HEAR them breathe. Of course, I've trained most of my buddies, so I know they are looking at their SPG when they take two/three breaths. If I didn't HEAR them breathe, I ask them to do so and also oblige them if they didn't hear me breathe. If I feel a deck hand touch me and/or my tank, I breathe again before I splash. I've had my air turned off twice on a lefty tank. I don't like it! :mad: BTW, if it's new buddy, they get a quick lesson in NetDoc Diving before we splash.

    I will have to play with @doctormike's list a bit. While I do a stereo check, O2 flush and Dil flush when I build my unit, I do them again before I splash. However, I (flame suit on) don't do much of a prebreathe. I don't dive with a HUD, so I'll probably just change that line to "PDCs". I certainly wish there was a CAN interface for AI SPGs and a way to display them on the Petrel. That would be so, so, so awesome!!! I might be bringing my Petrel just for the wireless AI.
     
  2. Manatee Diver

    Manatee Diver Angel Fish

    # of Dives: None - Not Certified
    Location: Tampa Bay, FL
    14
    4
    3
    I've had that happen when I have to use the yoke convertor, as I turn the tank around.
     
  3. seeker242

    seeker242 DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Pompano Beach, FL
    836
    386
    63
    I use a checklist to pack my gearbag, ever since the one time I forgot to pack my wing. Never again! :rofl3:
     
  4. doctormike

    doctormike ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: New York City
    4,927
    3,693
    113
    Yup! I really think that the whole physical checklist thing is primarily a CCR issue. Not to come off as too cavalier about OC diving (and I do respect the sport), but I just don't think that a checklist is as crucial as it is with rebreathers. I do insist on three full breaths, in and out, on each reg, while looking at the SPG when diving OC.

    I use the terms MAV and ADV for O2 and Dil Flush, although I suppose people who have a Dil MAV would have to modify it for that. You do a stereo check when you are in the unit? Or do you mean just on the boat...?

    Don't mean to flame you, but just wondering why no pre-breathe? Maybe this is a unit-specific thing (and I'm certainly a newbie) but It's the one thing that you can do, once you are wearing your unit, to guard against a very common and lethal problem. I'm not talking about CO2, I mean to make sure that your CCR can hold a setpoint. That you haven't rolled off your O2 or disconnected your O2 feed during donning your gear. That your solenoid is working, and that a slow leak hasn't drained your O2. Seems like it's worth a couple of minutes at least...



    That seems like a lot of added complexity for limited benefits - do you really watch your SPGs during a dive? Why crowd the display?[/QUOTE]
     
  5. divinh

    divinh Photographer

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: San Francisco
    341
    124
    43
    What's this BWRAF?

    I learned Bangkok Women Are Really Fellas. (I was trained in Thailand.)
     
    EireDiver606 likes this.
  6. _Ralph

    _Ralph DIR Practitioner

    380
    145
    43
    Something like this? (not for building, but Verification Checks near the water) ...

    Low Pressure (Loop)
    - Neg Check
    - Pos Check
    High Pressure
    - Manual Add(s)
    - SPG(s)
    - ADV
    Electronics
    - mV
    - Batteries
    - Calibration

    **Note this does not check scrubber, nor mushroom valves**


    The above list isn't a build checklist, but verification that the major systems are working (Loop, Gas, Electronics).


    _R
     
  7. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC Divemaster

    # of Dives: 0 - 24
    Location: United States
    2,101
    1,856
    113
    Not that it really matters to anyone but myself, for OC rec, I don't bother with checklists or mnemonics or any of that. It's an OC rec dive, and as long as I can breathe, I can sort out any problem. I doesn't take a checklist or a mnemonic to look at my spg and take a couple breaths as I'm kitting up. A basic head-to-toe evaluation before splashing is more than enough for me. However, I've got a few dives under my weight belt (not that I wear a ditchable weight belt, but that's another discussion) and I've seen enough issues in both myself an other divers that I'm confident in my ability to deal with any of them within the scope of that type of diving.

    When OC diving with a deco obligation I'm much more rigorous in my preparations and pre-dive methodology. When rebreather diving, you bet your sweet donkey tits that I'm using a build checklist, and a splash checklist, and going through both mentally as well as physically.

    Different strokes for different folks, however I'm not going to deny that the risk profile for each plays a significant part in my willingness (or unwillingness) to use some form of checklist to get me safely out of the water. While the ultimate risk to any of them is death, the accident slope that leads there is significantly different between those types of diving.
     
    doctormike and EireDiver606 like this.
  8. EireDiver606

    EireDiver606 DIR Practitioner

    884
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    When I was with PADI, I was taught “Brazilian Women Are Really Fun”.

    Now I’m more happy with the all encompassing pre dive sequence GUE EDGE. I think it sounds a bit arrogant though...
     
  9. doctormike

    doctormike ScubaBoard Supporter Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: New York City
    4,927
    3,693
    113
    Right, and that's why I have been pushing my sticker checklist in the very small world of rebreather divers, because - for example - jumping into the water with O2 off, disconnected or with a non-working solenoid can (and has) resulted in tragedy. And unlike the case with failure of an OC gas supply, a rebreather diver will be able to breathe comfortably right up to the point of unconsciousness.

    Sure, you can come up with scenarios where very inexperienced OC divers fall into an incident pit because they forgot their fins or something. But the idea of trying to change the culture of the massive and very diverse population of OC rec divers so that they use physical checklists just seems impossible to me.

    A mnemonic is not a physical checklist. The whole point of a physical checklist is that it is not dependent on your mental state (tired, hungry, angry, distracted, etc...). The cleverest mnemonic can be misinterpreted or forgotten, especially by new divers. And if you have that mnemonic thoroughly rehearsed and memorized, then you probably don't really need it anyway.
     
  10. Jcp2

    Jcp2 Angel Fish

    28
    15
    3
    Are there printed card decks for beginner divers available similar in size to what instructors refer to when they teach?
     

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