T-bolt Diver
Guest
What do you expect when your first priority is "lowest price". One would think that you would be concerned about other things "like quality" first, then try to find a fair price.
Cheapest certificates in the world?
- Thread starter DivingJimi
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Bob3
Contributor
Aaaahhhh... if only that were the case.
In the commercial diving schools, the $3000 school leaves you with just as good an education and just as employable as the $15,000 school, and they don't feed you their line of BS.
Price is never a good way to judge quality, or value. Gotta do the homework.
Heck, that's a little over $200/week, not a bad price to spend on a dive vacation in a warm place.
It's better yet if you can do some more homework & find a place that'll PAY you for babysitting touristas, and/or doing grunge work on the boat & shop, etc.
OP
DivingJimi
Guest
Ok. Im sorry if I in some strange way made you believe im someone im not.. ??
So for stopping that; My name is Jimi and im from sweden and i studied computers for 4 years after highschool and then worked one year with supporting people who had computer-related problems.. right now "between jobs" or in a economical mess as I would call it. I lost my job and girlfriend (divebuddy as well) at the same day in october and i spent 2 months thinking about my life. I love diving and didnt want to stop it because i lost my divebuddy also I have worked most of the summers at my fathers windsurfing-school as a instructor so I know the joy of seeing your students evolve and learn what you are teaching them. The result of all these circumstances was that I started thinking about working with diving. First in sweden for companys but then a friend told me about a trip he made to asia and he got certified as a divemaster and then stayed down there for 6 months working as one. I told him that i was thinking about studying spanish for 4 months since the swedish goverment pays for foreign studies. he said that its great. the more languages you speak the easier it is to get a job. so here i am and i just found out i wont get any money from sweden since i study "2 hours to little per week" so the money i borrowed i have to pay back and after that i will have to save up even more money.
I too cherish safe diving and that there are alot of people out there that really shouldnt be aloved to dive. by ignorance or lack of knowledge or stupidity or call it whatever you want.
I too have experience of divemasters having to pull people down because they have too little weight or dont know how to control their boyance.
I too have dived with people who have no respect for you and rush in front of you kicking your mask off just so they can get close to a stingray.
I have watched divemasters yell at people who cant keep their fingers to themselfes, breaking corals or playing with a moray eel.
I dont plan to start instructing people after that course in any way. so to get things sorted out here. I want to obtain the necessary certificates in a cheap way because of my situation and after that hopefully i will find job as helping out in a diveshop somewhere. starting slow and learning the basics. after a while divemaster or maybe even assistant instructor. But i have no plans on risking peoples lives! I dont like when people talk to me as if I was a stupid idiot when they dont know anything about me. Just cause I dont have the same options as rich people there is no reason to make me feel bad and telling me that do it the cheap way and you will always remain the cheap one..
Thats really encouraging.. thanks alot.
And to answer the question why I want to be a instructor (or divemaster / assistant instructor) is really easy. I love diving. I want to work with diving and do it as often as I can. I want to show others the joy of diving and I want to teach them how to do it safely for themselves, others and the reef. Now this is starting to sound as if it was taken from a book.
As i wrote above I have worked some years as a windsurfing-instructor and I really like teaching. I know that there is not much money to make and that is not why I want to do it. I simply want to work with something I love.
And for the question if I do it only to get the certificate?? In my current situation and with my economy why would I want to spend a lot of money just to get a certificate?
Ok, I think thats about it. Thanks for making me feel a little more welcome after a while and Yes I want VALUE for a good price. not crap for cheap.. if we now are marking words.. The certificate is not the important thing for me but the experience and the learning. With the same books as all other PADI places I dont think I will lack any knowledge. So mostly i pay for the experience and not for the certificate.
I also consider there to be a lot of people with a drivers license who never where supposed to be even near a car!
Ps. I´m really sorry if i offended anyone or used an angry tone it´s just that I don´t like it when people treat me bad. Looking forward for more comments and thoughts from you and I will let you know how my story turns out in the end.
So for stopping that; My name is Jimi and im from sweden and i studied computers for 4 years after highschool and then worked one year with supporting people who had computer-related problems.. right now "between jobs" or in a economical mess as I would call it. I lost my job and girlfriend (divebuddy as well) at the same day in october and i spent 2 months thinking about my life. I love diving and didnt want to stop it because i lost my divebuddy also I have worked most of the summers at my fathers windsurfing-school as a instructor so I know the joy of seeing your students evolve and learn what you are teaching them. The result of all these circumstances was that I started thinking about working with diving. First in sweden for companys but then a friend told me about a trip he made to asia and he got certified as a divemaster and then stayed down there for 6 months working as one. I told him that i was thinking about studying spanish for 4 months since the swedish goverment pays for foreign studies. he said that its great. the more languages you speak the easier it is to get a job. so here i am and i just found out i wont get any money from sweden since i study "2 hours to little per week" so the money i borrowed i have to pay back and after that i will have to save up even more money.
I too cherish safe diving and that there are alot of people out there that really shouldnt be aloved to dive. by ignorance or lack of knowledge or stupidity or call it whatever you want.
I too have experience of divemasters having to pull people down because they have too little weight or dont know how to control their boyance.
I too have dived with people who have no respect for you and rush in front of you kicking your mask off just so they can get close to a stingray.
I have watched divemasters yell at people who cant keep their fingers to themselfes, breaking corals or playing with a moray eel.
I dont plan to start instructing people after that course in any way. so to get things sorted out here. I want to obtain the necessary certificates in a cheap way because of my situation and after that hopefully i will find job as helping out in a diveshop somewhere. starting slow and learning the basics. after a while divemaster or maybe even assistant instructor. But i have no plans on risking peoples lives! I dont like when people talk to me as if I was a stupid idiot when they dont know anything about me. Just cause I dont have the same options as rich people there is no reason to make me feel bad and telling me that do it the cheap way and you will always remain the cheap one..
Thats really encouraging.. thanks alot.
And to answer the question why I want to be a instructor (or divemaster / assistant instructor) is really easy. I love diving. I want to work with diving and do it as often as I can. I want to show others the joy of diving and I want to teach them how to do it safely for themselves, others and the reef. Now this is starting to sound as if it was taken from a book.
As i wrote above I have worked some years as a windsurfing-instructor and I really like teaching. I know that there is not much money to make and that is not why I want to do it. I simply want to work with something I love.
And for the question if I do it only to get the certificate?? In my current situation and with my economy why would I want to spend a lot of money just to get a certificate?
Ok, I think thats about it. Thanks for making me feel a little more welcome after a while and Yes I want VALUE for a good price. not crap for cheap.. if we now are marking words.. The certificate is not the important thing for me but the experience and the learning. With the same books as all other PADI places I dont think I will lack any knowledge. So mostly i pay for the experience and not for the certificate.
I also consider there to be a lot of people with a drivers license who never where supposed to be even near a car!
Ps. I´m really sorry if i offended anyone or used an angry tone it´s just that I don´t like it when people treat me bad. Looking forward for more comments and thoughts from you and I will let you know how my story turns out in the end.
Jimi,
Ok, as far as the flame post, just blow it off, lets stay on track with what your asking. Solution as follows.. TWO thoughts that come to my mind:
"Progressing through FUN". Think about that while I hammer down the rest. You can do it the "rising throug the ranks" method. Shop around for a well priced AOW class, then, launch yourself into it! Play with that, dive lots, have fun. If you already own your own gear, GREAT! then, think on this, AIR is CHEAP! When your funds allow, your next stop, Rescue diver! Enjoy this, have fun with it, once again, dive often! Enjoy it, as mentioned, Air is CHEAP!
Next stop, you pick it, Nitrox or go straight to Master Diver. (Hang on here, I'm coming from a NAUI mindset, not sure if the is the PADI rank too, Probably is, not too much difference between the two) I think you'd be better off grabbing the Nitrox class before the Master Diver class, the Nitrox course will give you the benefit of getting deeper into dive physics and gas laws, which are covered in greater detail in the master. Getting a good exposure to the algebraic formulas with the nitrox will definately help. It did for me and I HATE algebra, it made Master Diver livable. As indicated previously, HAVE FUN! Dive often! Air is CHEAP!
Next stop. Master Diver! Go for this when funds allow. Shop around too. Make some calls. Maybe even Wheel-n-deal! Believe me, deals are out there. Complete this class with the attitude of "I'm finished when I'm finished..." enjoy the class because "leadership" is next. Have MORE fun and dive lots.. after all AIR is CHEAP! (Nitrox, cheap plus a few bucks)
Well, guess what? You just rose through the ranks like many of Instructor candidates before you. You also did it in a manner that was NOT thousands of dollars RIGHT-A-WAY. While you wern't looking, you racked up a huge sum of training dives and recreational dives. Wow, now you have a better idea of what things are about. This is great! Now, Young Grasshopper, enter PREP or AI leadership courses. Now, here's some money. Can varry from $1200 on up. Or, you may even be able to bite the buttet and get your PREP and ITC back to back for a lump price (Cost me $2090 including books, not counting boat dive costs though), take your time, enjoy the classes, the dives, the students you will be assisting in teaching, survive your orals, etc, you'll then have the foundation to start teaching. If that is what you REALLY want. I have a blast around new would be divers, the classroom, the pool sessions and the training OW dives.
So, in short, this approach is to rise up through the ranks with FUN and academics being what your sighting up on. You didn't have to "lump sum it" all at once.
Now, there is what I (IMHO) call "The Hard Way"... Finance the LUMP and go to a place like HALLS Diving (Bob Brayman's place- NAUI) or ProDive (PADI). My "other half" is at Halls now, with 3 weeks remaning of her 12 week program. CAUTION HERE: Prepare to GET WORKED! No lie here, she's in a good program, but she's had NO LIFE for the past 9 weeks. And Sacrifice GALORE. She's not seen our 15 month old daughter for a few months. To me, her approach was total BRAIN STRAIN and involved way too much personal sacrifice. BUT, she definatly has been taught her stuff. Mind you, I'm leizurely, I chose to rise up, poking along and having fun along the way at a nice slow steady pace. Both methods work I think. In her defense, she'll have a fist full of C-cards and some hard target working experience when she gets home. In my defense, I didn't acquire what results in $31,000.00 in debt, including the interest. The BRAIN STRAIN or sacrificing everything she's had to do. STILL, BOTH WAYS WORK.
Now, the "SCALES", Do you REALLY want to be an instructor? If so, then pick your method. Plan, plan, plan some more. After that, as NIKI (tm) says.... JUST DO IT... There are LOTS of instructors here, some have poked along rising through the ranks as time and money permitted, some have gone the CRASH course of having 12 weeks jammed at them. End Restult: They both know how to teach. The real question is, how do you want it?
I know this was way wordy! But I think I hit on what you were wanting to know. I am not going to ask you "why" you want to be an instructor, that's really none of my business. Your reasons are your own. More so, I offer you a crude "how too" approach.
Just make sure you enjoy it. Otherwise, this too will be like anything else you "had to do", it will simply SUCK.
-Dennis
So. Cal.
Ok, as far as the flame post, just blow it off, lets stay on track with what your asking. Solution as follows.. TWO thoughts that come to my mind:
"Progressing through FUN". Think about that while I hammer down the rest. You can do it the "rising throug the ranks" method. Shop around for a well priced AOW class, then, launch yourself into it! Play with that, dive lots, have fun. If you already own your own gear, GREAT! then, think on this, AIR is CHEAP! When your funds allow, your next stop, Rescue diver! Enjoy this, have fun with it, once again, dive often! Enjoy it, as mentioned, Air is CHEAP!
Next stop, you pick it, Nitrox or go straight to Master Diver. (Hang on here, I'm coming from a NAUI mindset, not sure if the is the PADI rank too, Probably is, not too much difference between the two) I think you'd be better off grabbing the Nitrox class before the Master Diver class, the Nitrox course will give you the benefit of getting deeper into dive physics and gas laws, which are covered in greater detail in the master. Getting a good exposure to the algebraic formulas with the nitrox will definately help. It did for me and I HATE algebra, it made Master Diver livable. As indicated previously, HAVE FUN! Dive often! Air is CHEAP!
Next stop. Master Diver! Go for this when funds allow. Shop around too. Make some calls. Maybe even Wheel-n-deal! Believe me, deals are out there. Complete this class with the attitude of "I'm finished when I'm finished..." enjoy the class because "leadership" is next. Have MORE fun and dive lots.. after all AIR is CHEAP! (Nitrox, cheap plus a few bucks)
Well, guess what? You just rose through the ranks like many of Instructor candidates before you. You also did it in a manner that was NOT thousands of dollars RIGHT-A-WAY. While you wern't looking, you racked up a huge sum of training dives and recreational dives. Wow, now you have a better idea of what things are about. This is great! Now, Young Grasshopper, enter PREP or AI leadership courses. Now, here's some money. Can varry from $1200 on up. Or, you may even be able to bite the buttet and get your PREP and ITC back to back for a lump price (Cost me $2090 including books, not counting boat dive costs though), take your time, enjoy the classes, the dives, the students you will be assisting in teaching, survive your orals, etc, you'll then have the foundation to start teaching. If that is what you REALLY want. I have a blast around new would be divers, the classroom, the pool sessions and the training OW dives.
So, in short, this approach is to rise up through the ranks with FUN and academics being what your sighting up on. You didn't have to "lump sum it" all at once.
Now, there is what I (IMHO) call "The Hard Way"... Finance the LUMP and go to a place like HALLS Diving (Bob Brayman's place- NAUI) or ProDive (PADI). My "other half" is at Halls now, with 3 weeks remaning of her 12 week program. CAUTION HERE: Prepare to GET WORKED! No lie here, she's in a good program, but she's had NO LIFE for the past 9 weeks. And Sacrifice GALORE. She's not seen our 15 month old daughter for a few months. To me, her approach was total BRAIN STRAIN and involved way too much personal sacrifice. BUT, she definatly has been taught her stuff. Mind you, I'm leizurely, I chose to rise up, poking along and having fun along the way at a nice slow steady pace. Both methods work I think. In her defense, she'll have a fist full of C-cards and some hard target working experience when she gets home. In my defense, I didn't acquire what results in $31,000.00 in debt, including the interest. The BRAIN STRAIN or sacrificing everything she's had to do. STILL, BOTH WAYS WORK.
Now, the "SCALES", Do you REALLY want to be an instructor? If so, then pick your method. Plan, plan, plan some more. After that, as NIKI (tm) says.... JUST DO IT... There are LOTS of instructors here, some have poked along rising through the ranks as time and money permitted, some have gone the CRASH course of having 12 weeks jammed at them. End Restult: They both know how to teach. The real question is, how do you want it?
I know this was way wordy! But I think I hit on what you were wanting to know. I am not going to ask you "why" you want to be an instructor, that's really none of my business. Your reasons are your own. More so, I offer you a crude "how too" approach.
Just make sure you enjoy it. Otherwise, this too will be like anything else you "had to do", it will simply SUCK.
-Dennis
So. Cal.
bwerb
Hoser/English Translator, eh
Your last post was great! A sincere welcome to the board!
You definitely appear to have your hear in the right place. I think there have been some great offes here for what to do. Diving is not necesarily about the money you spend, it's about the attitude you take with you.
Go and spend some time as an apprentice, good luck to you. Let us know where we can continue to help you.
Again, blow-off the rough welcome for what it was, a group of concerned divers who have their "bonehead filters" on high alert right now. I could direct you to a number of posts showing why this is so but I don't think that it would be constructive in the context of this thread.
Brian
You definitely appear to have your hear in the right place. I think there have been some great offes here for what to do. Diving is not necesarily about the money you spend, it's about the attitude you take with you.
Go and spend some time as an apprentice, good luck to you. Let us know where we can continue to help you.
Again, blow-off the rough welcome for what it was, a group of concerned divers who have their "bonehead filters" on high alert right now. I could direct you to a number of posts showing why this is so but I don't think that it would be constructive in the context of this thread.
Brian
primitivepete
Registered
Are you some kind of shop owner or instructor?
So what should I be paying for a PROPER DIVE EDUCATION?
Who is this"we" and "us" you refer to?
Is this some kind of CLICK? Good old boys club?
And yes I only have 6 posts. SO?
If you are an instructor, you are definatly one I would avoid.
Such attitude.
I take it your way is the only way.
And no. I am not going to be here for a week or two and dissapear. So get use to seeing my posts. (We/Us).
leadweight
Contributor
There are several dive shops in Utila that have fairly low rates for instruction. Living expenses are cheap down there. If you don't mind sharing a room with several other people it can be $1 per night or free. A private room is about $5 some places. These places do expect some work in return, shop duty as they call it. In return you get unlimited diving. I met a Canadian couple down there who got their OW and up through DM. They were substituting for DM's where we were staying.
No. Matt is not a shop owner or an instructor. He is a relatively experienced diver who does have a clue what he is talking about. He's skilled in the water. Can you say the same, newbie?
As a preliminary matter, you should know the following:
First, Its not CLICK, its clique. The first is what you do with your mouse. The second is a tight knit group.
Second, its not definatly, its definately.
Your posts will be more persuasive if they are written in English. That is the language that many of us speak.
The merits of your post also need to be addressed.
There is nothing wrong with bartering for training or gear. It's actually fairly common in the industry.
However, problems arise when divers try to take shortcuts. Zero to instructor in six months is simply too fast. Moreover, I question the quality of the gear that you will get for the money. The last thing I'd want is a cheap poodle jacket and knock off regulator if I'm responsible for other people's lives.
Matt is correct. You are the one who decided to place your finances at issue in this thread.
In general, I think that you will find that members could not care less about the state of your finances or how you obtain your training. The quality of training is an entirely different issue. There are enough poor instructors out there that the industry doesn't need more. If you don't believe me, run a search on "death" and "accident" and decide how many were attributable to poor training and supervision.
As for your drama queen attitude, you may find it more pleasant to leave it at home. There are enough people out here who won't tolerate it that you may find your tenure much more pleasant if you observe basic courtesy.
You could also consider this. When I found that I couldn't afford the things that I wanted, I joined the Army and let them pay for law school. I didn't lie around and play "woe is me" drama queen for the benefit of an internet audience.
leadweight
Contributor
Quite a few instructors are produced at schools in Florida where someone with an OW card shows up and 3 months later they leave as an instructor.
At that point they probably aren't any good, but that is what happens.
If they are lucky they will go to work for a dive shop somewhere who will make them assist more experienced instructors for 6 months or so. If they are really lucky the shop owner will be really picky and more or less retrain them.
Eventually, they will be fit to instruct.
Dont flip. I am not an instructor, but I consume their services. Students are quite qualified to rate the quality of their teachers.
Another aspect of this is that there is no (and correct me if I am wrong) basic educational requirement to become an instructor. I don't mean to say that a dive instructor needs a 4 year college degree to be effective, but something more than no minimum at all might be a good idea. I am hesitant to say what the standard should be, but in accord with many civil service jobs, military service would be an acceptable substitute for other formal education.
At that point they probably aren't any good, but that is what happens.
If they are lucky they will go to work for a dive shop somewhere who will make them assist more experienced instructors for 6 months or so. If they are really lucky the shop owner will be really picky and more or less retrain them.
Eventually, they will be fit to instruct.
Dont flip. I am not an instructor, but I consume their services. Students are quite qualified to rate the quality of their teachers.
Another aspect of this is that there is no (and correct me if I am wrong) basic educational requirement to become an instructor. I don't mean to say that a dive instructor needs a 4 year college degree to be effective, but something more than no minimum at all might be a good idea. I am hesitant to say what the standard should be, but in accord with many civil service jobs, military service would be an acceptable substitute for other formal education.
primitivepete
Registered
Ok, So your an english teacher now.
(Guess Law school didnt work out.)
Not sure where I was boohooing (suppose thats spelled wrong,or not a word)?
And I was not being a Drama Queen (as you put it.)
I must say I do like the way some of you (post whores) attack so many Newbies.
Also I am not really a newbie at diving. (Just new to this PUBLIC forum.)
You have no clue as to my ability.
Nor do I know anything about you.
(Lets keep it that way, ok?)
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