cheap halcyon gear

[2scuba]

To hh:

Thanks for you suggestions/advice.

The one nice feature I like about the back-plate is the modular design especially when I can change the configuration anytime I want - single tank for most dives or double tank for very deep dive. I also could change the lift capacity or replace any parts. Anyhow, I will definitely keep in mind your advice.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
PS I won't buy a 27# wing personally. Maybe 36, but for me a 45 is more like it.

'446:

Its my understanding that the 45 is for extreme cold weather or for use with steel deco bottles and back gas.

Just curious why you'd want the big wing?

2scuba:

That is one of the nicer features of the wings. After the harness is fitted, you can change from single to doubles in about 10 minutes. Changing back takes a little longer because you need to rethread the tank bands.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

Its Scoob. 446 has died and isn't reincarnated!

Seriously, I DIVE cold water up here in NYS and drag along an AL40. Maybe its a mental 'thing' but I just can't get past the idea that 36# is enough lift...

I'd hate to buy a 36# wing, find out its not, and to the tune of $200-300 later...have to buy another wing. Heck, even most jakcet and back inflation BC's sport at least 40#.

 

[-hh]

2scuba once bubbled...
The one nice feature I like about the back-plate is the modular design...

FWIW, I consider its modular flexibility to be closer to a weakness than a strength, because that means that there's more opportunities for things to go wrong. It also carries a higher maintenance cost, particularly when you remember to include the 'cost' of your free time.

I recognize that this is a minority view, but IMO, the only reason that such modularity is claimed to be such as wonderful feature is because its slightly cheaper than just owning 2 complete BC's, but only if your free time is worth absolutely nothing to you (an all too common mistake).


Moduarity has its place, but it is a net disservice when it causes too many opportunities for problems. Simple mistakes can result in an aborted (or worse) dive, and every time you reconfigure your gear is an opportunity to make a mistake. If you really have the diving need to substantially alter your rig, please seriously consider buying what makes sense to minimize the amount of time "mucking around" with making it work. In other words, dedicate gear for that use, rather than to have to play the "musical equipment" game.


So, one your core rig is set up right, leave it alone. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a regulator, a BC, or even your weightbelt. If your diving varies so widely that the core needs to be reworked, build a second core. The modularity of a BP/wings is like having only one engine for two cars.


-hh

 

[MikeFerrara]

-hh once bubbled...



FWIW, I consider its modular flexibility to be closer to a weakness than a strength, because that means that there's more opportunities for things to go wrong.

Like what?

If I'm going to dive a single tank, I pull my plate and harness off my doubles and slap it on a single tank with an h-valve and a different wing. My harness is exactly the same. My regs are exactly the same. My valves wih the exception of not having an isolator are exactly the same. All my other equipment lights, spool, knife are exactly the same and in the same place on the same harness. I just about have to look in the mirror to know I'm not in exactly the same rig. That's because all that changed in the amount of tank and lift I'm using.

Not to mention the fact that a plate does a nicer job of holding the tank and bladder on your back and that's what it's there for.

 

[bwerb]

-hh...you understand engineering...what's so difficult and "a potential weakness" in the modularity of a system which uses two stainless steel wingnuts as the parts you have to undo and redo to switch wings...ie. the modular part? I just don't see the operation of two wingnuts as "mucking around" and "an opportunity to make mistakes."

Since when diving doubles you tend to remove the wing from the tanks for drying, filling etc...just where does the difficulty lie? Since the operation takes like two minutes tops, I don't see how this is a great vacuum of free time.

Also...since a BP/wing can be had for a fraction the cost of most "tech" or "top of the line" BC's and can be used for either singles or doubles with simply a wing switch (around $350), why would you want to buy two complete set-ups? This is the same bunk some LDS's use to badmouth Bp/wings. Oh yeah...once you buy a BP...you'll never have to buy another one. The webbing is like $16. The hardware never wears out and wings are relatively cheap...sure the LDS isn't going to sell me another BC but I'll be back for more tanks and wings.

"scoob" - are you using the AL40 as a pony or as a deco bottle? The "40 lb" wing on many "tec BC's" is because of the "ability" to switch to doubles AL80's with maxed out intergrated weights and still be able to float the BC by itself at the surface.

 

[scubaxris]

-hh once bubbled...



I have a hard time paying $500-$600 for a BC that doesn't even come assembled.


OK now that's funny. You have made my day!!! Couldn't someone have warned me...almost ruined my keyboard with a coke!!!!
Christopher

 

[cyklon_300]

with a BP/W requires a couple of minutes...we're talking about the removal of two wing nuts. Not exactly a labor intensive effort that would eat up precious free time...and then again, some of us actually enjoy working (mucking?) with our gear, so the time issue is moot.

The modularity feature is a definitely a plus. All my ancillary equip stays on the harness, I don't have to switch my backup light, shears, knife back and forth...which means less chance of having to abort a dive because of having left something behind.

I'm curious about the unspecified 'maintenance' costs...maybe that refers to to the possibility of reweaving the harness every so many years...$12 worth of webbing and, oh forgot, loads of precious time again.

Why anyone would be afraid of 'reconfiguring' a weight belt...??

 

[ScoobieDooo]

Pony bottle right now - until I got to twins.

I didn't want to have to buy two wings, so I opted for the OMS 94# single bladder bungee wings which, so far, has worked great even with my single AL80. It doesn't flap, I have perfect horizontal orientation and lateral trim. No complaints.

When I bolt up the OMS 98's my wing will be just as 'at home' as its been with my AL80.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
Seriously, I DIVE cold water up here in NYS and drag along an AL40. Maybe its a mental 'thing' but I just can't get past the idea that 36# is enough lift...

I'd hate to buy a 36# wing, find out its not, and to the tune of $200-300 later...have to buy another wing. Heck, even most jakcet and back inflation BC's sport at least 40#.

I understand what you're saying. However, its a nonissue.

I dive in New England, mostly off the coast of RI and the north shore of Massachusetts. Its just as cold up here as it is in the Sound.

Before I got my doubles, I'd usually rig up with an HP120 and a steel 46 slung as a stage for deco.

I never had any problem staying on the surface. I've never needed more lift than I could get out of the wing. In fact, I've got a batwing that I use for the Carribean. 18 lbs of lift down there is plenty.

The fact that most BC's have 40+ lbs of lift doesn't bother me. Some of them also have 14 D-Rings and more disconnects than the phone company. I don't want those other "features", so I don't see that lift is a major issue either. Besides, bigger bladders and more padding increase drag. You've probably seen a difference between BC's and your OMS.

-hh: I must agree with Bwerb. Changing from singles to doubles takes about 10 minutes, including putting the wing and cam bands in their storage location. Going from doubles to singles is a little more time consuming because the bands are a pain to thread. It might take 15 minutes.

Taking care of the equipment is a non issue. After I've been diving my doubles, I disassemble the BP and Wing, remove the bag, rinse everthing and put them out to dry. I hose the tanks and regs and refill the argon bottle. Later, I reassemble the entire rig, fold the wings over the front and secure them. My regs, argon bottle, backup lights, blade and lift bag are all assembled and ready to go. It cuts way down on the contents of my dive bag.