Changes to Fundies...

[StSomewhere]

That's why I went ahead and took the 5thd-x Essentials workshop. Everything I need to work on became (painfully, embarrasingly) evident in those 2-1/2 days. I have most of my equipment issues resolved, and I have the foundational skills that I need to work on before I'd be ready to move on anything else. It was a start in the right direction, nothing more and nothing less.

It would've been foolish IMO for me to have gone into any DIR class worrying about "doing fundies in doubles", or "what do I need to do to pass", or any other goals that would have been unrealistic. Frankly, honestly, with the diving skills I knew I didn't possess going in (all videotaped for posterity's sake of course!) I would've been embarrassed to have shared a DIR-F class with people who were legitimately moving onto RecTriox, Tech1, Cave1, etc.

I know that's what the 5thd-x people had in mind with their workshop, and I think if GUE has a Rec-F (or whatever it gets named) geared to a separate skillset as foundational skills that could only be a good thing for both types of DIR-F divers. If someone could upgrade a Rec-F to a DIR-F, so much the better.

Clearly its an issue or so many people wouldn't be spending so much brainpower to solve it.

 

[Halthron]

It'll be interesting to compare the two classes once details for the Rec-F become available. I'm intrigued enough by DIR to read here but wasn't wildly enthusiastic at needing to take a combo skills/tech course to fill in ability then need to take it again to focus on the tech side, knowing that I wouldn't pass it the first time. I expect it'll give someone a opportunity to taste the kool-aid without it being required.

 

[Randy43068]

All good changes..

 

[MHK]

I see you are creating two "levels" of Fundamentals ... Rec and Tech. For those who have already taken and passed Fundamentals, will there be any additional requirements prior to taking Rec Triox or Tech 1?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob,

I suspect, although I haven't confirmed this with JJ, that it will be along the lines of the people that took the DIR-F under the old workshop paradigm. We're not looking to penalize anyone, or make them spend additional money, that isn't the case. Accordingly, I would suspect that GUE will honor all prior classes as satisfaction of the prerequisite. All we're really trying to do is bifrucate the class for those that have a clear and direct desire to go the tech and/or the cave route -v- those that simply want to feel more comfortable doing 60' reef dives.

Those that want to go to cave and/or tech will benefit at the DIR-F level by learning and doing skills while using doubles and lights. As the class currently exists, anyone that takes the class in a single tank and no light may very well find themselves in a disadvantage should they decide to go to cave country and wind up using doubles and/or lights for the first time whilst trying to learn how to dive a cave. The other way to look at this would be to assume for purposes of discussion that we made the class mandatory doubles and mandatory primary light, would that seem overkill to those students that have no desire to ever enter a cave? It's just a matter of with the success of the program came the necessity to remain fluid and constantly look for ways to improve.

I realize that with any change people will have questions, but to the extent possible in the cyber world, I hope these tweaks don't cause too much anxiety ;-)

Hope that helps.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob,

I suspect, although I haven't confirmed this with JJ, that it will be along the lines of the people that took the DIR-F under the old workshop paradigm. We're not looking to penalize anyone, or make them spend additional money, that isn't the case. Accordingly, I would suspect that GUE will honor all prior classes as satisfaction of the prerequisite. All we're really trying to do is bifrucate the class for those that have a clear and direct desire to go the tech and/or the cave route -v- those that simply want to feel more comfortable doing 60' reef dives.

Those that want to go to cave and/or wreck will benefit at the DIR-F level by learning and doing skills while using doubles and lights. As the class currently exists, anyone that takes the class in a single tank and no light may very well find themselves in a disadvantage should they decide to go to cave country and wind up using doubles and/or lights for the first time whilst trying to learn how to dive a cave. The other way to look at this would be to assume for purposes of discussion that we made the class mandatory doubles and mandatory primary light, would that seem overkill to those students that have no desire to ever enter a cave? It's just a matter of with the success of the program came the necessity to remain fluid and constantly look for ways to improve.

I realize that with any change people will have questions, but to the extent possible in the cyber world, I hope these tweaks don't cause too much anxiety ;-)

Hope that helps.

Thanks Michael ... it does. Personally, I think it's a step in a really good direction.

The questions (mine, at least) in this thread and the thread about the GUE OW class are intended to help clarify how GUE envisions implementing these changes ... thanks for your responses.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[piikki]

All we're really trying to do is bifrucate the class for those that have a clear and direct desire to go the tech and/or the cave route -v- those that simply want to feel more comfortable doing 60' reef dives.

Those that want to go to cave and/or tech will benefit at the DIR-F level by learning and doing skills while using doubles and lights. As the class currently exists, anyone that takes the class in a single tank and no light may very well find themselves in a disadvantage should they decide to go to cave country and wind up using doubles and/or lights for the first time whilst trying to learn how to dive a cave. The other way to look at this would be to assume for purposes of discussion that we made the class mandatory doubles and mandatory primary light, would that seem overkill to those students that have no desire to ever enter a cave? It's just a matter of with the success of the program came the necessity to remain fluid and constantly look for ways to improve.

I realize that with any change people will have questions, but to the extent possible in the cyber world, I hope these tweaks don't cause too much anxiety ;-)

Hope that helps.

I am already anxed. Let me not elaborate more but just ask: Will I be able to choose which DIR-F I am going to be on next summer, ie are the courses going to be tagged? I do not want to be hindering someone’s DIR-F experience if I turn up on the course in my single setup. However, I also resent being called a 60 feet reef rider when my setup and limitations at the moment have nothing to do with tropical diving.
And are the contents for Rec-F and Tech-F going to be same or will I be missing on something because I had to sign up for the lesser of the two (if one can pass Rec-F easier it implies it’s lower grade). Will I be scoffed as a GUE reef rider until I can carry double tanks etc regardless of my intentions (whether or not I was ever able to pursue all I wished to be able to pursue)?

 

[Adobo]

I am already anxed. Let me not elaborate more but just ask: Will I be able to choose which DIR-F I am going to be on next summer, ie are the courses going to be tagged? I do not want to be hindering someone’s DIR-F experience if I turn up on the course in my single setup. However, I also resent being called a 60 feet reef rider when my setup and limitations at the moment have nothing to do with tropical diving.
And are the contents for Rec-F and Tech-F going to be same or will I be missing on something because I had to sign up for the lesser of the two (if one can pass Rec-F easier it implies it’s lower grade). Will I be scoffed as a GUE reef rider until I can carry double tanks etc regardless of my intentions (whether or not I was ever able to pursue all I wished to be able to pursue)?

What about the old adage, "sticks and stones..."

 

[piikki]

What about the old adage, "sticks and stones..."

I’ve already taken a couple of courses that got scoffed at by even by people who taught them, and that I myself have – after diving a bit and learning a few more things – come to value less and less. I’d hate to take another one that the instructors themselves thought was kind of sub-something and lesser and ‘only so-and-so’ (instead of the real deal). I do not have the excuse of being totally ignorant anymore, so I should investigate this more. Hurting aside, I don’t think I’d respect myself knowingly choosing a course toned down for reef riders from instructor who didn’t appreciate me as a motivated student.

 

[BabyDuck]

i think rec-f would be a great idea, though i understand the issues piiki is bringing up (since it sounds like i'm in his shoes - i have a definite tech interest, am not there yet, and am working on going there). could the solution be a 'gap' class, kinda 'rec-f to dir-f' hole filler for someone who passed rec-f and then wanted to go full tech? it needn't be as long (and therefore should cost less) as either, since the main fundies skills are the main fundies skills, and would cover only issues with doubles, lights, whatever the dir-f requirements were. that way a rec-f person wouldn't be penalized (by having to re-take the full dir-f) for having started where their skills would stretch but be attainable, and dir-f folks wouldn't be held back like they would while the instructor did some more 'remedial' things with some of their classmates.

is that clear, or did i just confuse everyone except me?

 

[detroit diver]

Piikki,

I've been involved with at least 6 fundamentals classes, with different instuctors. In each class there were divers with both single and double tank configurations, taking the classes for all kinds of reasons. Not once in any of those classes did a GUE instructor belittle or put down a diver for diving a single tank, or make any adverse comments about those divers future goals or ambitions.

Simply put, the instructors are there to improve your diving, whatever that might be or whereeve that may take you. And they all do a great job of it.

On the other hand, go into the class with a sense of humor, because after seeing the video of yourself.........